An idea for a project; no idea where to start!

Hi Biscuitnapper…

I was actually at the arduino meetup group, I’m Sorry I didn’t meet
you and didn’t manage to talk with you about this.

I work in testing and developing electronic products and one of the
items I have tested in the past for shops is something called a
footfall device. Its a people sensor! Its actually a calibrated
scale hidden under the welcome mat which weighs people as they step
onto the mat. The weight is stored and from that an average
calculation of the number of people who come into the shop is
achieved. Most shops, supermarkets and football stadia use a similar
system. Infra red PIR sensing is possible and might work but it can
easily be affected by external things and not necessarily people (it
can be affected by sunlight, TV remotes, mirrors etc). You can
actually fool an infra-red sensor with a piece of cardboard!

This is the thing about electronics and engineering in general - there
are several ways to achieve the same thing. So lets break the issue
down and then try and work out where we would begin in trying to
design a solution to your problem:

  1. How much money do you have to spend? If the budget is tight then
    it rules out multiple sensors and some off the shelf kit which might
    speed things up. I call this Budget!
  2. Which sort of sensor do you want to use? Infra red LED laser,
    Passive Infra Red Sensor (PIR) like those used with house alarms,
    weight, ultra-sonic…there are plenty of different ways of achieving
    this. - I call these the inputs
  3. Which micro-controller do you want to use? I’m guessing you would
    like to use the Arduino as you have some familiarity with that. This
    is what I call the processing.
  4. How do you want to display the information? How do you want to
    show how many people have come into the shop? - Calculator display
    (16x2 LCD) or Seven Segment LED display (back to the future style
    digits!), output via bluetooth or wireless or ethernet to a PC (or
    Raspberry PI…hint hint)…These are what I call the outputs.
  5. How much time do you have to make it? Months, weeks, years…Set
    a time and then you have something to work to.

Once you have answers to these questions then the real fun can begin -
PROTOTYPING…OH YES!!!

If you wouldn’t mind email back with the answers so we can discuss further,

Cheers

AlexOn 20 August 2012 22:04, Biscuitnapper finokoye@googlemail.com wrote:

Hello,

Firstly, I have to come clean. I am an utter ignoramus when it comes to
actually making things but I really want to start working on practical
projects. At the moment, I volunteer at my local Oxfam and our main problem
is security. We lose quite a few donations to thieves but we can’t really
afford to set up CCTV in our shop. That aside, we would also like to get
quantitative data about our customers - how many come in on average, how
long they stay etc. - which will be really helpful when we redesign our
shop.

Now somehow I suspect developing a fully fledged face recognition system is
a bit beyond me at the moment, so I was hoping to start with something
small, like installing a system we could use to find out how many people
come into our shop. I discussed it a bit at the Arduino meetup and the
simplest idea involved an infra red LED and a beam splitter/lens set up that
would divide and focus the beam onto two photo-transistors. If the
photo-transistors were connected with an arduino, then we could use the
disruption of the beam to drive a motor which would be attached to the
counter.

My main question is how do I get started (beyond the sketch stage I mean -
there are quite a few of those!).

Thanks!


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Cool plan!

Personally i’d use a small Infra red laser and an IR phototransistor to
make a beam break sensor. You can use a mirror on the opposite wall so it
can be a self contained unit.

Of course, you’d need two units to count the direction people are moving
in. It will just be an estimate though, and can be confused by things like
people moving too fast or too slowly, or actively trying to make it count a
silly number. iirc, London Hackspace used to have a similar system
installed, at one point it thought there were over a hundred people in
there when it was empty!

-BobOn 20 August 2012 22:04, Biscuitnapper finokoye@googlemail.com wrote:

Hello,

Firstly, I have to come clean. I am an utter ignoramus when it comes to
actually making things but I really want to start working on practical
projects. At the moment, I volunteer at my local Oxfam and our main problem
is security. We lose quite a few donations to thieves but we can’t really
afford to set up CCTV in our shop. That aside, we would also like to get
quantitative data about our customers - how many come in on average, how
long they stay etc. - which will be really helpful when we redesign our
shop.

Now somehow I suspect developing a fully fledged face recognition system
is a bit beyond me at the moment, so I was hoping to start with something
small, like installing a system we could use to find out how many people
come into our shop. I discussed it a bit at the Arduino meetup and the
simplest idea involved an infra red LED and a beam splitter/lens set up
that would divide and focus the beam onto two photo-transistors. If the
photo-transistors were connected with an arduino, then we could use the
disruption of the beam to drive a motor which would be attached to the
counter.

My main question is how do I get started (beyond the sketch stage I mean -
there are quite a few of those!).

Thanks!


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I have just had a look in the store cupboard at work and the last
customer’s device of this type used a weight sensor…

It all depends on how accurate you need the information to be.

Cheers

AlexOn 21 August 2012 09:22, Bob Clough parag0n@ivixor.net wrote:

Cool plan!

Personally i’d use a small Infra red laser and an IR phototransistor to make
a beam break sensor. You can use a mirror on the opposite wall so it can be
a self contained unit.

Of course, you’d need two units to count the direction people are moving in.
It will just be an estimate though, and can be confused by things like
people moving too fast or too slowly, or actively trying to make it count a
silly number. iirc, London Hackspace used to have a similar system
installed, at one point it thought there were over a hundred people in there
when it was empty!

-Bob

On 20 August 2012 22:04, Biscuitnapper finokoye@googlemail.com wrote:

Hello,

Firstly, I have to come clean. I am an utter ignoramus when it comes to
actually making things but I really want to start working on practical
projects. At the moment, I volunteer at my local Oxfam and our main problem
is security. We lose quite a few donations to thieves but we can’t really
afford to set up CCTV in our shop. That aside, we would also like to get
quantitative data about our customers - how many come in on average, how
long they stay etc. - which will be really helpful when we redesign our
shop.

Now somehow I suspect developing a fully fledged face recognition system
is a bit beyond me at the moment, so I was hoping to start with something
small, like installing a system we could use to find out how many people
come into our shop. I discussed it a bit at the Arduino meetup and the
simplest idea involved an infra red LED and a beam splitter/lens set up that
would divide and focus the beam onto two photo-transistors. If the
photo-transistors were connected with an arduino, then we could use the
disruption of the beam to drive a motor which would be attached to the
counter.

My main question is how do I get started (beyond the sketch stage I mean -
there are quite a few of those!).

Thanks!


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See here for some ideas:

http://www.chambers-electronics.com/people_counters.htm

Alan Burlison

I think that most people counters just count people or groups of people,
then divide by two - it’s not necessary to measure direction unless you
have two entry/exits - and even you can just add both together and divide
by two, unless you have a one-way teleporter installed.On Tuesday, 21 August 2012 19:26:22 UTC+1, Biscuitnapper wrote:

Thank you for responding!

  1. I haven’t had a chance to get in deeper discussion with our Manager but
    I suspect our budget will be absolutely tiny. However, the fact you guys
    seem to think it’s a viable exercise means I will push a bit harder and see
    if Head Office would be willing to allocate some funds (of course, that
    would involve giving them a rough price guide). Otherwise I suspect it
    might require a fund raiser or two.

  2. Which conveniently leads to my next answer: basically whichever one is
    cheapest (or thereabouts). Out of the ideas on the website, my favourite is
    the Indoor Long Range IR Beam People Counter (LIR7) so we’d be needed an
    IR LED laser sensor.

  3. I will go with an Arduino, mostly because I know there is a support
    group nearby! My only skills are in the realm of coding and I don’t have
    any practical experience with microprocessors (which I hope to correct
    soon!).

  4. The outputs will be to a computer so we can directly enter/compare the
    data on spreadsheets. Our store computer is a bona fide dinosaur, though,
    so I will have to think about how we’d be able to output via wireless or
    ethernet.

  5. Will do!

Thank you very much guys. Knowing what I need to consider (as ever, not
the things I thought I would) helps a great deal. I am currently working
at Madly, so will pop over to the Hacspace some time with some plans and
sketches.

Florence Okoye

On Tuesday, August 21, 2012 2:16:25 PM UTC+1, Alan Burlison wrote:

See here for some ideas:

http://www.chambers-electronics.com/people_counters.htm


Alan Burlison