CNC Router - potential purchase

Hi all,

There’s been a lot of discussion recently, in both our physical and
digital spaces about getting a CNC router for the space. It’s no secret
that Bob and I for example have been lusting after one for a while.

Ideally we’d like to find something affordable that can easily take a
whole sheet of ply.

Richard has suggested this router
http://ooznest.co.uk/OX-CNC-Machine/OX-CNC-Mechanical-Kit which can,
with a bit of tweaking, go up to 1500mm x 1500mm. This would cost in the
region of £1000 to buy, plus time etc to put together (I’ve not done any
detailed costings because right now this is just the germ of an idea).

The others that I’ve been looking at are considerably smaller (big
enough for my purposes but perhaps not for those of other members), so
I’m not going to bother linking them right now.

If anyone has any other / better / different suggestions we’d be glad to
hear and consider them so that we can pick the most suitable bit of kit
for the space prior to running a pledge drive for it.

Best,

Tamarisk

For reference the FabLab ones are these beasts http://www.shopbottools.com/mProducts/Brochures/ShopBot_specSheet_FullSize.pdf

(#10159)
PRSalpha
96-48 96"x 48"x 6"
2.44m x 1.22m x .15m 102" x 50" x 8"
2.59m x 1.27m x .20m 120" x 79" x 67"
3.05m x 2.01m x 1.70m $18,380

That is $18380.

07969 502 077 || philip@mcgaw.eu || http://philipmcgaw.com || http://skippy.org.uk
Twitter: http://twitter.com/skippyuk || LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/philipmcgaw

“Everyone who has ever taken a shower has had an idea. It’s the person who gets out of the shower, dries off, and does something about it that makes a difference.” — Nolan Bushnell> On 19 May 2016, at 22:35, tamarisk kay tamarisk@tamarisk.it wrote:

Hi all,

There’s been a lot of discussion recently, in both our physical and
digital spaces about getting a CNC router for the space. It’s no secret
that Bob and I for example have been lusting after one for a while.

Ideally we’d like to find something affordable that can easily take a
whole sheet of ply.

Richard has suggested this router
http://ooznest.co.uk/OX-CNC-Machine/OX-CNC-Mechanical-Kit which can,
with a bit of tweaking, go up to 1500mm x 1500mm. This would cost in the
region of £1000 to buy, plus time etc to put together (I’ve not done any
detailed costings because right now this is just the germ of an idea).

The others that I’ve been looking at are considerably smaller (big
enough for my purposes but perhaps not for those of other members), so
I’m not going to bother linking them right now.

If anyone has any other / better / different suggestions we’d be glad to
hear and consider them so that we can pick the most suitable bit of kit
for the space prior to running a pledge drive for it.

Best,

Tamarisk


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signature.asc (236 Bytes)

Hi,
I’ve been adding some stuff to a github repo with different ideas etc
I’ll post the link once I’ve finished adding in some more bits in
(different options for stepper drivers / electronics etc)

  • I like the idea of being able to add different types of heads and adapt
    later on, such as drag knifes / 5 or 6 axis with a lathe chuck / 3d print
    head / uv exposure head for pcbs / edm etc, the vslot on the z axis should
    make this easier.

  • For the software personally I think chillipepr might be the best way to
    go to start (http://chilipeppr.com/grbl) with a cheap controller board,
    although this means the firmware would probably need to be grbl / tinyg /
    tinyg2 which in turn affects which board we use

  • Turning 3d models into g-code involves CAM software, (like a slicer for
    a 3d printer) usually cam software has a thing called a pre-processor to
    output for different boards / firmwares, so that’s worth taking into
    consideration (e.g. hsmworks, asprire, jscut for cam)

  • Personally I think an ideal setup would be a beaglebone green with an
    rpi3 / touch screen using machinekit. since it has lots of fancy realtime
    stuff / motion control such as using the PRU’s of the beaglebone. (but I
    haven’t looked into setting that up yet)

  • For the mechanical parts on average it takes about 2 days for one
    person to put together an Ox kit

  • One idea is that we put resin or epoxy into the extrusion to make it
    more rigid

Another link is
http://openbuilds.org/builds/the-bull-dog-a-rovercnc-ox-based-1500mm-x-1500mm-cnc-tutorial-build.2815/
This one is probably more expensive since it’s C-Beam, and needs more
wheels, also I don’t think it’s in kit form like the ox
There’s quite a lot of other custom builds on that site

The other most popular ones I’ve seen are the shapeoko or the x-carve. But
they seem less hackable, and I think it might be expensive to get them
shipped from the US unless there is a UK distributor somewhereOn Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 10:35:39 PM UTC+1, tas kay wrote:

Hi all,

There’s been a lot of discussion recently, in both our physical and
digital spaces about getting a CNC router for the space. It’s no secret
that Bob and I for example have been lusting after one for a while.

Ideally we’d like to find something affordable that can easily take a
whole sheet of ply.

Richard has suggested this router
http://ooznest.co.uk/OX-CNC-Machine/OX-CNC-Mechanical-Kit which can,
with a bit of tweaking, go up to 1500mm x 1500mm. This would cost in the
region of £1000 to buy, plus time etc to put together (I’ve not done any
detailed costings because right now this is just the germ of an idea).

The others that I’ve been looking at are considerably smaller (big
enough for my purposes but perhaps not for those of other members), so
I’m not going to bother linking them right now.

If anyone has any other / better / different suggestions we’d be glad to
hear and consider them so that we can pick the most suitable bit of kit
for the space prior to running a pledge drive for it.

Best,

Tamarisk

Hi,
I’ve been adding some stuff to a github repo with different ideas etc

There is a github repo for a discussion? perhaps for storing settings and etc but not a great location for talking about things.

I’ll post the link once I’ve finished adding in some more bits in (different options for stepper drivers / electronics etc)

  • I like the idea of being able to add different types of heads and adapt later on, such as drag knifes / 5 or 6 axis with a lathe chuck / 3d print head / uv exposure head for pcbs / edm etc, the vslot on the z axis should make this easier.

The product Tas linked to has the provision for fitting with different heads.

5/6 axis etc can be fitted to the little CNC machine we already acquired from MadLAB (WSFG printed on the side)

UV exposure head???

Also it would not work well as a 3D printer as the build area would be massively hard to temperature control.

  • For the software personally I think chillipepr might be the best way to go to start (http://chilipeppr.com/grbl http://chilipeppr.com/grbl) with a cheap controller board, although this means the firmware would probably need to be grbl / tinyg / tinyg2 which in turn affects which board we use

I would like to hear Ian and Toms feedback on this as they are building one for LAMM so will have hands on experience

  • Turning 3d models into g-code involves CAM software, (like a slicer for a 3d printer) usually cam software has a thing called a pre-processor to output for different boards / firmwares, so that’s worth taking into consideration (e.g. hsmworks, asprire, jscut for cam)

again LAMM peeps

  • Personally I think an ideal setup would be a beaglebone green with an rpi3 / touch screen using machinekit. since it has lots of fancy realtime stuff / motion control such as using the PRU’s of the beaglebone. (but I haven’t looked into setting that up yet)

Once Funded and Built, in the medium term would it be worth getting some experience on the WSFG CNC?

  • For the mechanical parts on average it takes about 2 days for one person to put together an Ox kit
  • One idea is that we put resin or epoxy into the extrusion to make it more rigid

Would this not risk permanent deformation? as plastics tend not to return once relaxed?

signature.asc (236 Bytes)

Hi all,

New-ish member here; signed up a little while ago and then got busy with
non-making stuff… I’d be very much up for joining a pledge drive for a
larger machine (especially if >3-axis), as a solid, large format CNC is one
of my grail tools.

In the short term, I have a stock Shapeoko 2 that I’d be happy to loan to
the space if anyone’s interested. It’s a toy compared to the likes of a
ShopBot - doesn’t even have a proper spindle yet, still has the supplied KO
rotary tool - but should at least be usable. Let me know if interested.

Cheers,
SimonOn 20 May 2016 at 07:15, Philip McGaw philip@mcgaw.eu wrote:

On 20 May 2016, at 02:56, ‘garlicbread (Richard)’ via Hackspace Manchester hacman@googlegroups.com wrote:

Hi,
I’ve been adding some stuff to a github repo with different ideas etc

There is a github repo for a discussion? perhaps for storing settings and
etc but not a great location for talking about things.

I’ll post the link once I’ve finished adding in some more bits in
(different options for stepper drivers / electronics etc)

  • I like the idea of being able to add different types of heads and
    adapt later on, such as drag knifes / 5 or 6 axis with a lathe chuck / 3d
    print head / uv exposure head for pcbs / edm etc, the vslot on the z axis
    should make this easier.

The product Tas linked to has the provision for fitting with different
heads.

5/6 axis etc can be fitted to the little CNC machine we already acquired
from MadLAB (WSFG printed on the side)

UV exposure head???

Also it would not work well as a 3D printer as the build area would be
massively hard to temperature control.

  • For the software personally I think chillipepr might be the best way
    to go to start (http://chilipeppr.com/grbl) with a cheap controller
    board, although this means the firmware would probably need to be grbl /
    tinyg / tinyg2 which in turn affects which board we use

I would like to hear Ian and Toms feedback on this as they are building
one for LAMM so will have hands on experience

  • Turning 3d models into g-code involves CAM software, (like a slicer
    for a 3d printer) usually cam software has a thing called a pre-processor
    to output for different boards / firmwares, so that’s worth taking into
    consideration (e.g. hsmworks, asprire, jscut for cam)

again LAMM peeps

  • Personally I think an ideal setup would be a beaglebone green with an
    rpi3 / touch screen using machinekit. since it has lots of fancy realtime
    stuff / motion control such as using the PRU’s of the beaglebone. (but I
    haven’t looked into setting that up yet)

Once Funded and Built, in the medium term would it be worth getting some
experience on the WSFG CNC?

  • For the mechanical parts on average it takes about 2 days for one
    person to put together an Ox kit

  • One idea is that we put resin or epoxy into the extrusion to make it
    more rigid

Would this not risk permanent deformation? as plastics tend not to return
once relaxed?

Another link is

http://openbuilds.org/builds/the-bull-dog-a-rovercnc-ox-based-1500mm-x-1500mm-cnc-tutorial-build.2815/
This one is probably more expensive since it’s C-Beam, and needs more
wheels, also I don’t think it’s in kit form like the ox
There’s quite a lot of other custom builds on that site

The other most popular ones I’ve seen are the shapeoko or the x-carve. But
they seem less hackable, and I think it might be expensive to get them
shipped from the US unless there is a UK distributor somewhere

On Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 10:35:39 PM UTC+1, tas kay wrote:

Hi all,

There’s been a lot of discussion recently, in both our physical and
digital spaces about getting a CNC router for the space. It’s no secret
that Bob and I for example have been lusting after one for a while.

Ideally we’d like to find something affordable that can easily take a
whole sheet of ply.

Richard has suggested this router
http://ooznest.co.uk/OX-CNC-Machine/OX-CNC-Mechanical-Kit which can,
with a bit of tweaking, go up to 1500mm x 1500mm. This would cost in the
region of £1000 to buy, plus time etc to put together (I’ve not done any
detailed costings because right now this is just the germ of an idea).

The others that I’ve been looking at are considerably smaller (big
enough for my purposes but perhaps not for those of other members), so
I’m not going to bother linking them right now.

If anyone has any other / better / different suggestions we’d be glad to
hear and consider them so that we can pick the most suitable bit of kit
for the space prior to running a pledge drive for it.

Best,

Tamarisk


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Hi,
I’ve been adding some stuff to a github repo with different ideas etc

There is a github repo for a discussion? perhaps for storing settings and
etc but not a great location for talking about things.

Its more a set of examples / list of parts / notes that I pulled together
when building my own one at home
Any discussion i agree is best kept to the mailing lists etc
I was originally asked by Chris for a hypothetical example but I’m fully
open to different ideas / models / everything etc

I’ll post the link once I’ve finished adding in some more bits in

(different options for stepper drivers / electronics etc)

  • I like the idea of being able to add different types of heads and
    adapt later on, such as drag knifes / 5 or 6 axis with a lathe chuck / 3d
    print head / uv exposure head for pcbs / edm etc, the vslot on the z axis
    should make this easier.

The product Tas linked to has the provision for fitting with different
heads

Yeah I just meant if we decided to go for something else like an x-carve or
a shapeoko for example, they don’t seem to have slots for the heads

5/6 axis etc can be fitted to the little CNC machine we already acquired

from MadLAB (WSFG printed on the side)

UV exposure head???

The guys over at this site http://www.diyouware.com/ managed to figure out
how to get a PHR-803T blu-ray pickup working
the idea is you put some UV sensitive board underneath then “print” the pcb
tracks with the head
although they’re design seems to move the board around instead of the head
to avoid vibration issues

Also it would not work well as a 3D printer as the build area would be

massively hard to temperature control.

I agree, also you wouldn’t get much on the Z Height without replacing the
extrusion on the Z Axis
(but that shouldn’t stop us from trying :slight_smile: )

  • For the software personally I think chillipepr might be the best way
    to go to start (http://chilipeppr.com/grbl) with a cheap controller
    board, although this means the firmware would probably need to be grbl /
    tinyg / tinyg2 which in turn affects which board we use

I would like to hear Ian and Toms feedback on this as they are building
one for LAMM so will have hands on experience

  • Turning 3d models into g-code involves CAM software, (like a slicer
    for a 3d printer) usually cam software has a thing called a pre-processor
    to output for different boards / firmwares, so that’s worth taking into
    consideration (e.g. hsmworks, asprire, jscut for cam)

again LAMM peeps

  • Personally I think an ideal setup would be a beaglebone green with an
    rpi3 / touch screen using machinekit. since it has lots of fancy realtime
    stuff / motion control such as using the PRU’s of the beaglebone. (but I
    haven’t looked into setting that up yet)

Once Funded and Built, in the medium term would it be worth getting some
experience on the WSFG CNC?

That’s one option
I’ve managed to get an old emf badge from Bob that’s got the same IC as an
arduino due on it
I’m hoping I can combine it with the existing polulu drivers from the
proxon mill and a custom breakout board to make the proxon use chillipepr /
tinyg2. I think I’ve got the tinyg2 side figured out for that one and just
need to get around to making the break out board

  • For the mechanical parts on average it takes about 2 days for one
    person to put together an Ox kit

  • One idea is that we put resin or epoxy into the extrusion to make it
    more rigid

Would this not risk permanent deformation? as plastics tend not to return
once relaxed?

In the cnc forums there’s been a few different discussions of different
mixtures of materials
although from the looks of it some of it is more for damping vibration than
adding strength
I don’t have a link to hand, but if you google cnc expoxy granite for
example

Another link is

not sure one where the right place is to chime into the cnc discussion -
telegram or mailing list - but i’d thought i’d offer my 2 cents here. i
hope this is ok.

i’d recommend going for something slightly smaller than going for absolute
maximum’s. i don’t see a point of a cnc if it’s not accurate enough to be
asked to do jobs. if the ox cnc people recommend against using the maximum
dimensions due to keeping the backslash in check then we should follow that
advice.

also, it may be worth looking at something which comes will all the stuff
we need to make the cnc with minimal effort. since there are already so
many tasks to be done with the hackspace putting another complicated job
onto the list will make it less likely to get finished. i’m not sure if the
x-carve from inventables or the Shapeoko - Carbide 3D or the ox cnc are
easier to build. no idea.

i could assist in the assembly of a simple to use kit. but for more than
that i’m afraid i may not be of much help.

bests,
constOn 20 May 2016 at 10:17, ‘garlicbread (Richard)’ via Hackspace Manchester < hacman@googlegroups.com> wrote:

On Friday, May 20, 2016 at 7:15:10 AM UTC+1, Skippy McGaw wrote:

On 20 May 2016, at 02:56, ‘garlicbread (Richard)’ via Hackspace Manchester hac...@googlegroups.com wrote:

Hi,
I’ve been adding some stuff to a github repo with different ideas etc

There is a github repo for a discussion? perhaps for storing settings and
etc but not a great location for talking about things.

Its more a set of examples / list of parts / notes that I pulled together
when building my own one at home
Any discussion i agree is best kept to the mailing lists etc
I was originally asked by Chris for a hypothetical example but I’m fully
open to different ideas / models / everything etc

I’ll post the link once I’ve finished adding in some more bits in

(different options for stepper drivers / electronics etc)

  • I like the idea of being able to add different types of heads and
    adapt later on, such as drag knifes / 5 or 6 axis with a lathe chuck / 3d
    print head / uv exposure head for pcbs / edm etc, the vslot on the z axis
    should make this easier.

The product Tas linked to has the provision for fitting with different
heads

Yeah I just meant if we decided to go for something else like an x-carve
or a shapeoko for example, they don’t seem to have slots for the heads

5/6 axis etc can be fitted to the little CNC machine we already acquired

from MadLAB (WSFG printed on the side)

UV exposure head???

The guys over at this site http://www.diyouware.com/ managed to figure
out how to get a PHR-803T blu-ray pickup working
the idea is you put some UV sensitive board underneath then “print” the
pcb tracks with the head
although they’re design seems to move the board around instead of the head
to avoid vibration issues

Also it would not work well as a 3D printer as the build area would be

massively hard to temperature control.

I agree, also you wouldn’t get much on the Z Height without replacing the
extrusion on the Z Axis
(but that shouldn’t stop us from trying :slight_smile: )

  • For the software personally I think chillipepr might be the best way
    to go to start (http://chilipeppr.com/grbl) with a cheap controller
    board, although this means the firmware would probably need to be grbl /
    tinyg / tinyg2 which in turn affects which board we use

I would like to hear Ian and Toms feedback on this as they are building
one for LAMM so will have hands on experience

  • Turning 3d models into g-code involves CAM software, (like a slicer
    for a 3d printer) usually cam software has a thing called a pre-processor
    to output for different boards / firmwares, so that’s worth taking into
    consideration (e.g. hsmworks, asprire, jscut for cam)

again LAMM peeps

  • Personally I think an ideal setup would be a beaglebone green with an
    rpi3 / touch screen using machinekit. since it has lots of fancy realtime
    stuff / motion control such as using the PRU’s of the beaglebone. (but I
    haven’t looked into setting that up yet)

Once Funded and Built, in the medium term would it be worth getting some
experience on the WSFG CNC?

That’s one option
I’ve managed to get an old emf badge from Bob that’s got the same IC as an
arduino due on it
I’m hoping I can combine it with the existing polulu drivers from the
proxon mill and a custom breakout board to make the proxon use chillipepr /
tinyg2. I think I’ve got the tinyg2 side figured out for that one and just
need to get around to making the break out board

  • For the mechanical parts on average it takes about 2 days for one
    person to put together an Ox kit

  • One idea is that we put resin or epoxy into the extrusion to make it
    more rigid

Would this not risk permanent deformation? as plastics tend not to return
once relaxed?

In the cnc forums there’s been a few different discussions of different
mixtures of materials
although from the looks of it some of it is more for damping vibration
than adding strength
I don’t have a link to hand, but if you google cnc expoxy granite for
example

Another link is

http://openbuilds.org/builds/the-bull-dog-a-rovercnc-ox-based-1500mm-x-1500mm-cnc-tutorial-build.2815/
This one is probably more expensive since it’s C-Beam, and needs more
wheels, also I don’t think it’s in kit form like the ox
There’s quite a lot of other custom builds on that site

The other most popular ones I’ve seen are the shapeoko or the x-carve.
But they seem less hackable, and I think it might be expensive to get them
shipped from the US unless there is a UK distributor somewhere

On Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 10:35:39 PM UTC+1, tas kay wrote:

Hi all,

There’s been a lot of discussion recently, in both our physical and
digital spaces about getting a CNC router for the space. It’s no secret
that Bob and I for example have been lusting after one for a while.

Ideally we’d like to find something affordable that can easily take a
whole sheet of ply.

Richard has suggested this router
http://ooznest.co.uk/OX-CNC-Machine/OX-CNC-Mechanical-Kit which can,
with a bit of tweaking, go up to 1500mm x 1500mm. This would cost in the

region of £1000 to buy, plus time etc to put together (I’ve not done any

detailed costings because right now this is just the germ of an idea).

The others that I’ve been looking at are considerably smaller (big
enough for my purposes but perhaps not for those of other members), so
I’m not going to bother linking them right now.

If anyone has any other / better / different suggestions we’d be glad to

hear and consider them so that we can pick the most suitable bit of kit
for the space prior to running a pledge drive for it.

Best,

Tamarisk


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
[Next performance:

Hi Constantin

I can’t comment on the other devices, but I’d say mechanically the ox is
one of the easiest kits I’ve put together
everything is pre-cut and pre-tapped and labeled and boxed (Greg would be
proud)
I think the only problem I came up against was a single nackered T-nut (you
get a bag of spares)
It took just a couple of days to screw and bolt everything together

http://ooznest.co.uk/image/data/products/OX/OX-Assembly-Manual.pdf

One thing that’s open ended is which electronics you use, the Nema 23
motors take around 2.8A / 3A
(you can run them with lower current you just lose out on the torque)
Also soldering avionics connectors was a bit of a pain

My thoughts were we could start out with some cheap aliexpress DRV8825’s
pololu’s / shield just to get things up and running
then move to some TMC2660’s later on which can manage 4A and have all the
fancy torque measuring features via spi
The attached is a smaller version I’ve got sitting in the loft at the moment
I’m still trying to find the time to finish off the end stopsOn Friday, May 20, 2016 at 2:14:14 PM UTC+1, Constantin Popp wrote:

not sure one where the right place is to chime into the cnc discussion -
telegram or mailing list - but i’d thought i’d offer my 2 cents here. i
hope this is ok.

i’d recommend going for something slightly smaller than going for absolute
maximum’s. i don’t see a point of a cnc if it’s not accurate enough to be
asked to do jobs. if the ox cnc people recommend against using the maximum
dimensions due to keeping the backslash in check then we should follow that
advice.

also, it may be worth looking at something which comes will all the stuff
we need to make the cnc with minimal effort. since there are already so
many tasks to be done with the hackspace putting another complicated job
onto the list will make it less likely to get finished. i’m not sure if the
x-carve from inventables or the Shapeoko - Carbide 3D or the ox cnc are
easier to build. no idea.

i could assist in the assembly of a simple to use kit. but for more than
that i’m afraid i may not be of much help.

bests,
const

On 20 May 2016 at 10:17, ‘garlicbread (Richard)’ via Hackspace Manchester <hac...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>> wrote:

On Friday, May 20, 2016 at 7:15:10 AM UTC+1, Skippy McGaw wrote:

On 20 May 2016, at 02:56, ‘garlicbread (Richard)’ via Hackspace Manchester hac...@googlegroups.com wrote:

Hi,
I’ve been adding some stuff to a github repo with different ideas etc

There is a github repo for a discussion? perhaps for storing settings
and etc but not a great location for talking about things.

Its more a set of examples / list of parts / notes that I pulled together
when building my own one at home
Any discussion i agree is best kept to the mailing lists etc
I was originally asked by Chris for a hypothetical example but I’m fully
open to different ideas / models / everything etc

I’ll post the link once I’ve finished adding in some more bits in

(different options for stepper drivers / electronics etc)

  • I like the idea of being able to add different types of heads and
    adapt later on, such as drag knifes / 5 or 6 axis with a lathe chuck / 3d
    print head / uv exposure head for pcbs / edm etc, the vslot on the z axis
    should make this easier.

The product Tas linked to has the provision for fitting with different
heads

Yeah I just meant if we decided to go for something else like an x-carve
or a shapeoko for example, they don’t seem to have slots for the heads

5/6 axis etc can be fitted to the little CNC machine we already acquired

from MadLAB (WSFG printed on the side)

UV exposure head???

The guys over at this site http://www.diyouware.com/ managed to figure
out how to get a PHR-803T blu-ray pickup working
the idea is you put some UV sensitive board underneath then “print” the
pcb tracks with the head
although they’re design seems to move the board around instead of the
head to avoid vibration issues

Also it would not work well as a 3D printer as the build area would be

massively hard to temperature control.

I agree, also you wouldn’t get much on the Z Height without replacing the
extrusion on the Z Axis
(but that shouldn’t stop us from trying :slight_smile: )

  • For the software personally I think chillipepr might be the best way
    to go to start (http://chilipeppr.com/grbl) with a cheap controller
    board, although this means the firmware would probably need to be grbl /
    tinyg / tinyg2 which in turn affects which board we use

I would like to hear Ian and Toms feedback on this as they are building
one for LAMM so will have hands on experience

  • Turning 3d models into g-code involves CAM software, (like a slicer
    for a 3d printer) usually cam software has a thing called a pre-processor
    to output for different boards / firmwares, so that’s worth taking into
    consideration (e.g. hsmworks, asprire, jscut for cam)

again LAMM peeps

  • Personally I think an ideal setup would be a beaglebone green with
    an rpi3 / touch screen using machinekit. since it has lots of fancy
    realtime stuff / motion control such as using the PRU’s of the beaglebone.
    (but I haven’t looked into setting that up yet)

Once Funded and Built, in the medium term would it be worth getting some
experience on the WSFG CNC?

That’s one option
I’ve managed to get an old emf badge from Bob that’s got the same IC as
an arduino due on it
I’m hoping I can combine it with the existing polulu drivers from the
proxon mill and a custom breakout board to make the proxon use chillipepr /
tinyg2. I think I’ve got the tinyg2 side figured out for that one and just
need to get around to making the break out board

  • For the mechanical parts on average it takes about 2 days for one
    person to put together an Ox kit

  • One idea is that we put resin or epoxy into the extrusion to make it
    more rigid

Would this not risk permanent deformation? as plastics tend not to
return once relaxed?

In the cnc forums there’s been a few different discussions of different
mixtures of materials
although from the looks of it some of it is more for damping vibration
than adding strength
I don’t have a link to hand, but if you google cnc expoxy granite for
example

Another link is

http://openbuilds.org/builds/the-bull-dog-a-rovercnc-ox-based-1500mm-x-1500mm-cnc-tutorial-build.2815/
This one is probably more expensive since it’s C-Beam, and needs more
wheels, also I don’t think it’s in kit form like the ox
There’s quite a lot of other custom builds on that site

The other most popular ones I’ve seen are the shapeoko or the x-carve.
But they seem less hackable, and I think it might be expensive to get them
shipped from the US unless there is a UK distributor somewhere

On Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 10:35:39 PM UTC+1, tas kay wrote:

Hi all,

There’s been a lot of discussion recently, in both our physical and
digital spaces about getting a CNC router for the space. It’s no secret

that Bob and I for example have been lusting after one for a while.

Ideally we’d like to find something affordable that can easily take a
whole sheet of ply.

Richard has suggested this router
http://ooznest.co.uk/OX-CNC-Machine/OX-CNC-Mechanical-Kit which can,
with a bit of tweaking, go up to 1500mm x 1500mm. This would cost in the

region of £1000 to buy, plus time etc to put together (I’ve not done any

detailed costings because right now this is just the germ of an idea).

The others that I’ve been looking at are considerably smaller (big
enough for my purposes but perhaps not for those of other members), so
I’m not going to bother linking them right now.

If anyone has any other / better / different suggestions we’d be glad to

hear and consider them so that we can pick the most suitable bit of kit

for the space prior to running a pledge drive for it.

Best,

Tamarisk


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::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
[Next performance:

Wow, that looks amazing.On 20 May 2016 16:30, “‘garlicbread (Richard)’ via Hackspace Manchester” < hacman@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Hi Constantin

I can’t comment on the other devices, but I’d say mechanically the ox is
one of the easiest kits I’ve put together
everything is pre-cut and pre-tapped and labeled and boxed (Greg would be
proud)
I think the only problem I came up against was a single nackered T-nut
(you get a bag of spares)
It took just a couple of days to screw and bolt everything together

http://ooznest.co.uk/image/data/products/OX/OX-Assembly-Manual.pdf

One thing that’s open ended is which electronics you use, the Nema 23
motors take around 2.8A / 3A
(you can run them with lower current you just lose out on the torque)
Also soldering avionics connectors was a bit of a pain

My thoughts were we could start out with some cheap aliexpress DRV8825’s
pololu’s / shield just to get things up and running
then move to some TMC2660’s later on which can manage 4A and have all the
fancy torque measuring features via spi
The attached is a smaller version I’ve got sitting in the loft at the
moment
I’m still trying to find the time to finish off the end stops

On Friday, May 20, 2016 at 2:14:14 PM UTC+1, Constantin Popp wrote:

not sure one where the right place is to chime into the cnc discussion -
telegram or mailing list - but i’d thought i’d offer my 2 cents here. i
hope this is ok.

i’d recommend going for something slightly smaller than going for
absolute maximum’s. i don’t see a point of a cnc if it’s not accurate
enough to be asked to do jobs. if the ox cnc people recommend against using
the maximum dimensions due to keeping the backslash in check then we should
follow that advice.

also, it may be worth looking at something which comes will all the stuff
we need to make the cnc with minimal effort. since there are already so
many tasks to be done with the hackspace putting another complicated job
onto the list will make it less likely to get finished. i’m not sure if the
x-carve from inventables or the Shapeoko - Carbide 3D or the ox cnc are
easier to build. no idea.

i could assist in the assembly of a simple to use kit. but for more than
that i’m afraid i may not be of much help.

bests,
const

On 20 May 2016 at 10:17, ‘garlicbread (Richard)’ via Hackspace Manchester hac...@googlegroups.com wrote:

On Friday, May 20, 2016 at 7:15:10 AM UTC+1, Skippy McGaw wrote:

On 20 May 2016, at 02:56, ‘garlicbread (Richard)’ via Hackspace Manchester hac...@googlegroups.com wrote:

Hi,
I’ve been adding some stuff to a github repo with different ideas etc

There is a github repo for a discussion? perhaps for storing settings
and etc but not a great location for talking about things.

Its more a set of examples / list of parts / notes that I pulled
together when building my own one at home
Any discussion i agree is best kept to the mailing lists etc
I was originally asked by Chris for a hypothetical example but I’m fully
open to different ideas / models / everything etc

I’ll post the link once I’ve finished adding in some more bits in

(different options for stepper drivers / electronics etc)

  • I like the idea of being able to add different types of heads and
    adapt later on, such as drag knifes / 5 or 6 axis with a lathe chuck / 3d
    print head / uv exposure head for pcbs / edm etc, the vslot on the z axis
    should make this easier.

The product Tas linked to has the provision for fitting with different
heads

Yeah I just meant if we decided to go for something else like an x-carve
or a shapeoko for example, they don’t seem to have slots for the heads

5/6 axis etc can be fitted to the little CNC machine we already acquired

from MadLAB (WSFG printed on the side)

UV exposure head???

The guys over at this site http://www.diyouware.com/ managed to figure
out how to get a PHR-803T blu-ray pickup working
the idea is you put some UV sensitive board underneath then “print” the
pcb tracks with the head
although they’re design seems to move the board around instead of the
head to avoid vibration issues

Also it would not work well as a 3D printer as the build area would be

massively hard to temperature control.

I agree, also you wouldn’t get much on the Z Height without replacing
the extrusion on the Z Axis
(but that shouldn’t stop us from trying :slight_smile: )

  • For the software personally I think chillipepr might be the best
    way to go to start (http://chilipeppr.com/grbl) with a cheap
    controller board, although this means the firmware would probably need to
    be grbl / tinyg / tinyg2 which in turn affects which board we use

I would like to hear Ian and Toms feedback on this as they are building
one for LAMM so will have hands on experience

  • Turning 3d models into g-code involves CAM software, (like a slicer
    for a 3d printer) usually cam software has a thing called a pre-processor
    to output for different boards / firmwares, so that’s worth taking into
    consideration (e.g. hsmworks, asprire, jscut for cam)

again LAMM peeps

  • Personally I think an ideal setup would be a beaglebone green with
    an rpi3 / touch screen using machinekit. since it has lots of fancy
    realtime stuff / motion control such as using the PRU’s of the beaglebone.
    (but I haven’t looked into setting that up yet)

Once Funded and Built, in the medium term would it be worth getting
some experience on the WSFG CNC?

That’s one option
I’ve managed to get an old emf badge from Bob that’s got the same IC as
an arduino due on it
I’m hoping I can combine it with the existing polulu drivers from the
proxon mill and a custom breakout board to make the proxon use chillipepr /
tinyg2. I think I’ve got the tinyg2 side figured out for that one and just
need to get around to making the break out board

  • For the mechanical parts on average it takes about 2 days for one
    person to put together an Ox kit

  • One idea is that we put resin or epoxy into the extrusion to make
    it more rigid

Would this not risk permanent deformation? as plastics tend not to
return once relaxed?

In the cnc forums there’s been a few different discussions of different
mixtures of materials
although from the looks of it some of it is more for damping vibration
than adding strength
I don’t have a link to hand, but if you google cnc expoxy granite for
example

Another link is

http://openbuilds.org/builds/the-bull-dog-a-rovercnc-ox-based-1500mm-x-1500mm-cnc-tutorial-build.2815/
This one is probably more expensive since it’s C-Beam, and needs more
wheels, also I don’t think it’s in kit form like the ox
There’s quite a lot of other custom builds on that site

The other most popular ones I’ve seen are the shapeoko or the x-carve.
But they seem less hackable, and I think it might be expensive to get them
shipped from the US unless there is a UK distributor somewhere

On Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 10:35:39 PM UTC+1, tas kay wrote:

Hi all,

There’s been a lot of discussion recently, in both our physical and
digital spaces about getting a CNC router for the space. It’s no secret

that Bob and I for example have been lusting after one for a while.

Ideally we’d like to find something affordable that can easily take a
whole sheet of ply.

Richard has suggested this router
http://ooznest.co.uk/OX-CNC-Machine/OX-CNC-Mechanical-Kit which can,
with a bit of tweaking, go up to 1500mm x 1500mm. This would cost in
the
region of £1000 to buy, plus time etc to put together (I’ve not done
any
detailed costings because right now this is just the germ of an idea).

The others that I’ve been looking at are considerably smaller (big
enough for my purposes but perhaps not for those of other members), so

I’m not going to bother linking them right now.

If anyone has any other / better / different suggestions we’d be glad
to
hear and consider them so that we can pick the most suitable bit of kit

for the space prior to running a pledge drive for it.

Best,

Tamarisk


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups “Hackspace Manchester” group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
an email to hacman+un...@googlegroups.com.
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an email to hacman+un...@googlegroups.com.
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::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
[Next performance:


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Hackspace Manchester" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
email to hacman+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
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For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Just to follow
I tried to look into what problems there might be with going max size 1.5m
x 1.5m

First I found these threads



Basically there are 2 60x20 extrusions that go across for the X Axis (left
to right) with a 3rd bar further back
One of the problems is when the spindle is dead center, you end up with a
torsion effect where the spin of the spindle causes a twist when the X axis
is very long.
one fix is to try and glue or bolt these two extrusions together
one of the above threads suggests 8mm bolts with about 150mm spacing

Next I asked ooznest if they had any experience with very large machines,
they’re response was:

We put that warning up, because one customer did have an issue with
accurate re-positioning of the tool head. However we have sold many of that
size since then without any issues.
If you are planning to do mainly wood work with the machine, then that size
shouldn’t cause any issues.
Bolting or glue the rails together would help a lot. Another mod you can do
is by doubling the belts, if you look up OX Double belt mod, it will
explain what i mean better.

after a bit of searching I found this for the double belt mod
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXjLuLqFb-UOn Friday, May 20, 2016 at 10:45:13 PM UTC+1, Constantin Popp wrote:

Wow, that looks amazing.
On 20 May 2016 16:30, “‘garlicbread (Richard)’ via Hackspace Manchester” < hac...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>> wrote:

Hi Constantin

I can’t comment on the other devices, but I’d say mechanically the ox is
one of the easiest kits I’ve put together
everything is pre-cut and pre-tapped and labeled and boxed (Greg would be
proud)
I think the only problem I came up against was a single nackered T-nut
(you get a bag of spares)
It took just a couple of days to screw and bolt everything together

http://ooznest.co.uk/image/data/products/OX/OX-Assembly-Manual.pdf

One thing that’s open ended is which electronics you use, the Nema 23
motors take around 2.8A / 3A
(you can run them with lower current you just lose out on the torque)
Also soldering avionics connectors was a bit of a pain

My thoughts were we could start out with some cheap aliexpress DRV8825’s
pololu’s / shield just to get things up and running
then move to some TMC2660’s later on which can manage 4A and have all the
fancy torque measuring features via spi
The attached is a smaller version I’ve got sitting in the loft at the
moment
I’m still trying to find the time to finish off the end stops

On Friday, May 20, 2016 at 2:14:14 PM UTC+1, Constantin Popp wrote:

not sure one where the right place is to chime into the cnc discussion -
telegram or mailing list - but i’d thought i’d offer my 2 cents here. i
hope this is ok.

i’d recommend going for something slightly smaller than going for
absolute maximum’s. i don’t see a point of a cnc if it’s not accurate
enough to be asked to do jobs. if the ox cnc people recommend against using
the maximum dimensions due to keeping the backslash in check then we should
follow that advice.

also, it may be worth looking at something which comes will all the
stuff we need to make the cnc with minimal effort. since there are already
so many tasks to be done with the hackspace putting another complicated job
onto the list will make it less likely to get finished. i’m not sure if the
x-carve from inventables or the Shapeoko - Carbide 3D or the ox cnc are
easier to build. no idea.

i could assist in the assembly of a simple to use kit. but for more than
that i’m afraid i may not be of much help.

bests,
const

On 20 May 2016 at 10:17, ‘garlicbread (Richard)’ via Hackspace Manchester hac...@googlegroups.com wrote:

On Friday, May 20, 2016 at 7:15:10 AM UTC+1, Skippy McGaw wrote:

On 20 May 2016, at 02:56, ‘garlicbread (Richard)’ via Hackspace Manchester hac...@googlegroups.com wrote:

Hi,
I’ve been adding some stuff to a github repo with different ideas etc

There is a github repo for a discussion? perhaps for storing settings
and etc but not a great location for talking about things.

Its more a set of examples / list of parts / notes that I pulled
together when building my own one at home
Any discussion i agree is best kept to the mailing lists etc
I was originally asked by Chris for a hypothetical example but I’m
fully open to different ideas / models / everything etc

I’ll post the link once I’ve finished adding in some more bits in

(different options for stepper drivers / electronics etc)

  • I like the idea of being able to add different types of heads and
    adapt later on, such as drag knifes / 5 or 6 axis with a lathe chuck / 3d
    print head / uv exposure head for pcbs / edm etc, the vslot on the z axis
    should make this easier.

The product Tas linked to has the provision for fitting with different
heads

Yeah I just meant if we decided to go for something else like an
x-carve or a shapeoko for example, they don’t seem to have slots for the
heads

5/6 axis etc can be fitted to the little CNC machine we already

acquired from MadLAB (WSFG printed on the side)

UV exposure head???

The guys over at this site http://www.diyouware.com/ managed to figure
out how to get a PHR-803T blu-ray pickup working
the idea is you put some UV sensitive board underneath then “print” the
pcb tracks with the head
although they’re design seems to move the board around instead of the
head to avoid vibration issues

Also it would not work well as a 3D printer as the build area would be

massively hard to temperature control.

I agree, also you wouldn’t get much on the Z Height without replacing
the extrusion on the Z Axis
(but that shouldn’t stop us from trying :slight_smile: )

  • For the software personally I think chillipepr might be the best
    way to go to start (http://chilipeppr.com/grbl) with a cheap
    controller board, although this means the firmware would probably need to
    be grbl / tinyg / tinyg2 which in turn affects which board we use

I would like to hear Ian and Toms feedback on this as they are
building one for LAMM so will have hands on experience

  • Turning 3d models into g-code involves CAM software, (like a
    slicer for a 3d printer) usually cam software has a thing called a
    pre-processor to output for different boards / firmwares, so that’s worth
    taking into consideration (e.g. hsmworks, asprire, jscut for cam)

again LAMM peeps

  • Personally I think an ideal setup would be a beaglebone green with
    an rpi3 / touch screen using machinekit. since it has lots of fancy
    realtime stuff / motion control such as using the PRU’s of the beaglebone.
    (but I haven’t looked into setting that up yet)

Once Funded and Built, in the medium term would it be worth getting
some experience on the WSFG CNC?

That’s one option
I’ve managed to get an old emf badge from Bob that’s got the same IC as
an arduino due on it
I’m hoping I can combine it with the existing polulu drivers from the
proxon mill and a custom breakout board to make the proxon use chillipepr /
tinyg2. I think I’ve got the tinyg2 side figured out for that one and just
need to get around to making the break out board

  • For the mechanical parts on average it takes about 2 days for one
    person to put together an Ox kit

  • One idea is that we put resin or epoxy into the extrusion to make
    it more rigid

Would this not risk permanent deformation? as plastics tend not to
return once relaxed?

In the cnc forums there’s been a few different discussions of different
mixtures of materials
although from the looks of it some of it is more for damping vibration
than adding strength
I don’t have a link to hand, but if you google cnc expoxy granite for
example

Another link is

http://openbuilds.org/builds/the-bull-dog-a-rovercnc-ox-based-1500mm-x-1500mm-cnc-tutorial-build.2815/
This one is probably more expensive since it’s C-Beam, and needs more
wheels, also I don’t think it’s in kit form like the ox
There’s quite a lot of other custom builds on that site

The other most popular ones I’ve seen are the shapeoko or the x-carve.
But they seem less hackable, and I think it might be expensive to get them
shipped from the US unless there is a UK distributor somewhere

On Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 10:35:39 PM UTC+1, tas kay wrote:

Hi all,

There’s been a lot of discussion recently, in both our physical and
digital spaces about getting a CNC router for the space. It’s no
secret
that Bob and I for example have been lusting after one for a while.

Ideally we’d like to find something affordable that can easily take a

whole sheet of ply.

Richard has suggested this router
http://ooznest.co.uk/OX-CNC-Machine/OX-CNC-Mechanical-Kit which can,
with a bit of tweaking, go up to 1500mm x 1500mm. This would cost in
the
region of £1000 to buy, plus time etc to put together (I’ve not done
any
detailed costings because right now this is just the germ of an idea).

The others that I’ve been looking at are considerably smaller (big
enough for my purposes but perhaps not for those of other members), so

I’m not going to bother linking them right now.

If anyone has any other / better / different suggestions we’d be glad
to
hear and consider them so that we can pick the most suitable bit of
kit
for the space prior to running a pledge drive for it.

Best,

Tamarisk


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups “Hackspace Manchester” group.
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an email to hacman+un...@googlegroups.com.
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Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/hacman.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups “Hackspace Manchester” group.
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an email to hacman+un...@googlegroups.com.
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Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/hacman.
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::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
[Next performance:


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
“Hackspace Manchester” group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
email to hacman+un...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>.
To post to this group, send email to hac...@googlegroups.com
<javascript:>.
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For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Personally, I think it might be better short-term to take Simon up on his
offer of a loan of his shapeoko2:

In the short term, I have a stock Shapeoko 2 that I’d be happy to loan to

the space if anyone’s interested. It’s a toy compared to the likes of a
ShopBot - doesn’t even have a proper spindle yet, still has the supplied KO
rotary tool - but should at least be usable. Let me know if interested.

This would allow us to sort out things like the toolchain and care and
maintenance of a CNC in the space (which is something we’ve never quite
gotten off the ground with the existing PCB milling machines) - And once
people are familiar with using them, at that point we can price out
different options and figure out funding sources for BIG CNC machines.

I have a spare 300W ER11 spindle in the space (because reasons) that we
could (reversibly) transplant onto it if Simon is OK with that - I’m sure
we could CNC up a mounting bracket for it :slight_smile:

-BobOn 22 May 2016 at 22:13, ‘garlicbread (Richard)’ via Hackspace Manchester < hacman@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Just to follow
I tried to look into what problems there might be with going max size 1.5m
x 1.5m

First I found these threads

http://www.openbuilds.com/threads/stop-x-axis-flex-on-the-ox.6859/#post-35760
http://www.openbuilds.com/threads/beavers-ox-1500.4408/
Basically there are 2 60x20 extrusions that go across for the X Axis (left
to right) with a 3rd bar further back
One of the problems is when the spindle is dead center, you end up with a
torsion effect where the spin of the spindle causes a twist when the X axis
is very long.
one fix is to try and glue or bolt these two extrusions together
one of the above threads suggests 8mm bolts with about 150mm spacing

Next I asked ooznest if they had any experience with very large machines,
they’re response was:

We put that warning up, because one customer did have an issue with
accurate re-positioning of the tool head. However we have sold many of that
size since then without any issues.
If you are planning to do mainly wood work with the machine, then that
size shouldn’t cause any issues.
Bolting or glue the rails together would help a lot. Another mod you can
do is by doubling the belts, if you look up OX Double belt mod, it will
explain what i mean better.

after a bit of searching I found this for the double belt mod
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXjLuLqFb-U

On Friday, May 20, 2016 at 10:45:13 PM UTC+1, Constantin Popp wrote:

Wow, that looks amazing.
On 20 May 2016 16:30, “‘garlicbread (Richard)’ via Hackspace Manchester” < hac...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Hi Constantin

I can’t comment on the other devices, but I’d say mechanically the ox is
one of the easiest kits I’ve put together
everything is pre-cut and pre-tapped and labeled and boxed (Greg would
be proud)
I think the only problem I came up against was a single nackered T-nut
(you get a bag of spares)
It took just a couple of days to screw and bolt everything together

http://ooznest.co.uk/image/data/products/OX/OX-Assembly-Manual.pdf

One thing that’s open ended is which electronics you use, the Nema 23
motors take around 2.8A / 3A
(you can run them with lower current you just lose out on the torque)
Also soldering avionics connectors was a bit of a pain

My thoughts were we could start out with some cheap aliexpress DRV8825’s
pololu’s / shield just to get things up and running
then move to some TMC2660’s later on which can manage 4A and have all
the fancy torque measuring features via spi
The attached is a smaller version I’ve got sitting in the loft at the
moment
I’m still trying to find the time to finish off the end stops

On Friday, May 20, 2016 at 2:14:14 PM UTC+1, Constantin Popp wrote:

not sure one where the right place is to chime into the cnc discussion

  • telegram or mailing list - but i’d thought i’d offer my 2 cents here. i
    hope this is ok.

i’d recommend going for something slightly smaller than going for
absolute maximum’s. i don’t see a point of a cnc if it’s not accurate
enough to be asked to do jobs. if the ox cnc people recommend against using
the maximum dimensions due to keeping the backslash in check then we should
follow that advice.

also, it may be worth looking at something which comes will all the
stuff we need to make the cnc with minimal effort. since there are already
so many tasks to be done with the hackspace putting another complicated job
onto the list will make it less likely to get finished. i’m not sure if the
x-carve from inventables or the Shapeoko - Carbide 3D or the ox cnc are
easier to build. no idea.

i could assist in the assembly of a simple to use kit. but for more
than that i’m afraid i may not be of much help.

bests,
const

On 20 May 2016 at 10:17, ‘garlicbread (Richard)’ via Hackspace Manchester hac...@googlegroups.com wrote:

On Friday, May 20, 2016 at 7:15:10 AM UTC+1, Skippy McGaw wrote:

On 20 May 2016, at 02:56, ‘garlicbread (Richard)’ via Hackspace Manchester hac...@googlegroups.com wrote:

Hi,
I’ve been adding some stuff to a github repo with different ideas etc

There is a github repo for a discussion? perhaps for storing settings
and etc but not a great location for talking about things.

Its more a set of examples / list of parts / notes that I pulled
together when building my own one at home
Any discussion i agree is best kept to the mailing lists etc
I was originally asked by Chris for a hypothetical example but I’m
fully open to different ideas / models / everything etc

I’ll post the link once I’ve finished adding in some more bits in

(different options for stepper drivers / electronics etc)

  • I like the idea of being able to add different types of heads and
    adapt later on, such as drag knifes / 5 or 6 axis with a lathe chuck / 3d
    print head / uv exposure head for pcbs / edm etc, the vslot on the z axis
    should make this easier.

The product Tas linked to has the provision for fitting with
different heads

Yeah I just meant if we decided to go for something else like an
x-carve or a shapeoko for example, they don’t seem to have slots for the
heads

5/6 axis etc can be fitted to the little CNC machine we already

acquired from MadLAB (WSFG printed on the side)

UV exposure head???

The guys over at this site http://www.diyouware.com/ managed to
figure out how to get a PHR-803T blu-ray pickup working
the idea is you put some UV sensitive board underneath then "print"
the pcb tracks with the head
although they’re design seems to move the board around instead of the
head to avoid vibration issues

Also it would not work well as a 3D printer as the build area would be

massively hard to temperature control.

I agree, also you wouldn’t get much on the Z Height without replacing
the extrusion on the Z Axis
(but that shouldn’t stop us from trying :slight_smile: )

  • For the software personally I think chillipepr might be the best
    way to go to start (http://chilipeppr.com/grbl) with a cheap
    controller board, although this means the firmware would probably need to
    be grbl / tinyg / tinyg2 which in turn affects which board we use

I would like to hear Ian and Toms feedback on this as they are
building one for LAMM so will have hands on experience

  • Turning 3d models into g-code involves CAM software, (like a
    slicer for a 3d printer) usually cam software has a thing called a
    pre-processor to output for different boards / firmwares, so that’s worth
    taking into consideration (e.g. hsmworks, asprire, jscut for cam)

again LAMM peeps

  • Personally I think an ideal setup would be a beaglebone green
    with an rpi3 / touch screen using machinekit. since it has lots of fancy
    realtime stuff / motion control such as using the PRU’s of the beaglebone.
    (but I haven’t looked into setting that up yet)

Once Funded and Built, in the medium term would it be worth getting
some experience on the WSFG CNC?

That’s one option
I’ve managed to get an old emf badge from Bob that’s got the same IC
as an arduino due on it
I’m hoping I can combine it with the existing polulu drivers from the
proxon mill and a custom breakout board to make the proxon use chillipepr /
tinyg2. I think I’ve got the tinyg2 side figured out for that one and just
need to get around to making the break out board

  • For the mechanical parts on average it takes about 2 days for one
    person to put together an Ox kit

  • One idea is that we put resin or epoxy into the extrusion to make
    it more rigid

Would this not risk permanent deformation? as plastics tend not to
return once relaxed?

In the cnc forums there’s been a few different discussions of
different mixtures of materials
although from the looks of it some of it is more for damping vibration
than adding strength
I don’t have a link to hand, but if you google cnc expoxy granite for
example

Another link is

http://openbuilds.org/builds/the-bull-dog-a-rovercnc-ox-based-1500mm-x-1500mm-cnc-tutorial-build.2815/
This one is probably more expensive since it’s C-Beam, and needs more
wheels, also I don’t think it’s in kit form like the ox
There’s quite a lot of other custom builds on that site

The other most popular ones I’ve seen are the shapeoko or the
x-carve. But they seem less hackable, and I think it might be expensive to
get them shipped from the US unless there is a UK distributor somewhere

On Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 10:35:39 PM UTC+1, tas kay wrote:

Hi all,

There’s been a lot of discussion recently, in both our physical and
digital spaces about getting a CNC router for the space. It’s no
secret
that Bob and I for example have been lusting after one for a while.

Ideally we’d like to find something affordable that can easily take a

whole sheet of ply.

Richard has suggested this router
http://ooznest.co.uk/OX-CNC-Machine/OX-CNC-Mechanical-Kit which can,

with a bit of tweaking, go up to 1500mm x 1500mm. This would cost in
the
region of £1000 to buy, plus time etc to put together (I’ve not done
any
detailed costings because right now this is just the germ of an
idea).

The others that I’ve been looking at are considerably smaller (big
enough for my purposes but perhaps not for those of other members),
so
I’m not going to bother linking them right now.

If anyone has any other / better / different suggestions we’d be
glad to
hear and consider them so that we can pick the most suitable bit of
kit
for the space prior to running a pledge drive for it.

Best,

Tamarisk


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I’m in agreement with Bob. Let’s take Simon up on his very kind offer which
will give us all the experience needed to move forward.

AlexOn Mon, 23 May 2016, 14:57 Bob Clough, bob@clough.me wrote:

Personally, I think it might be better short-term to take Simon up on his
offer of a loan of his shapeoko2:

In the short term, I have a stock Shapeoko 2 that I’d be happy to loan to

the space if anyone’s interested. It’s a toy compared to the likes of a
ShopBot - doesn’t even have a proper spindle yet, still has the supplied KO
rotary tool - but should at least be usable. Let me know if interested.

This would allow us to sort out things like the toolchain and care and
maintenance of a CNC in the space (which is something we’ve never quite
gotten off the ground with the existing PCB milling machines) - And once
people are familiar with using them, at that point we can price out
different options and figure out funding sources for BIG CNC machines.

I have a spare 300W ER11 spindle in the space (because reasons) that we
could (reversibly) transplant onto it if Simon is OK with that - I’m sure
we could CNC up a mounting bracket for it :slight_smile:

-Bob

On 22 May 2016 at 22:13, ‘garlicbread (Richard)’ via Hackspace Manchester hacman@googlegroups.com wrote:

Just to follow
I tried to look into what problems there might be with going max size
1.5m x 1.5m

First I found these threads

http://www.openbuilds.com/threads/stop-x-axis-flex-on-the-ox.6859/#post-35760
http://www.openbuilds.com/threads/beavers-ox-1500.4408/
Basically there are 2 60x20 extrusions that go across for the X Axis
(left to right) with a 3rd bar further back
One of the problems is when the spindle is dead center, you end up with a
torsion effect where the spin of the spindle causes a twist when the X axis
is very long.
one fix is to try and glue or bolt these two extrusions together
one of the above threads suggests 8mm bolts with about 150mm spacing

Next I asked ooznest if they had any experience with very large machines,
they’re response was:

We put that warning up, because one customer did have an issue with
accurate re-positioning of the tool head. However we have sold many of that
size since then without any issues.
If you are planning to do mainly wood work with the machine, then that
size shouldn’t cause any issues.
Bolting or glue the rails together would help a lot. Another mod you can
do is by doubling the belts, if you look up OX Double belt mod, it will
explain what i mean better.

after a bit of searching I found this for the double belt mod
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXjLuLqFb-U

On Friday, May 20, 2016 at 10:45:13 PM UTC+1, Constantin Popp wrote:

Wow, that looks amazing.
On 20 May 2016 16:30, “‘garlicbread (Richard)’ via Hackspace Manchester” hac...@googlegroups.com wrote:

Hi Constantin

I can’t comment on the other devices, but I’d say mechanically the ox
is one of the easiest kits I’ve put together
everything is pre-cut and pre-tapped and labeled and boxed (Greg would
be proud)
I think the only problem I came up against was a single nackered T-nut
(you get a bag of spares)
It took just a couple of days to screw and bolt everything together

http://ooznest.co.uk/image/data/products/OX/OX-Assembly-Manual.pdf

One thing that’s open ended is which electronics you use, the Nema 23
motors take around 2.8A / 3A
(you can run them with lower current you just lose out on the torque)
Also soldering avionics connectors was a bit of a pain

My thoughts were we could start out with some cheap aliexpress
DRV8825’s pololu’s / shield just to get things up and running
then move to some TMC2660’s later on which can manage 4A and have all
the fancy torque measuring features via spi
The attached is a smaller version I’ve got sitting in the loft at the
moment
I’m still trying to find the time to finish off the end stops

On Friday, May 20, 2016 at 2:14:14 PM UTC+1, Constantin Popp wrote:

not sure one where the right place is to chime into the cnc discussion

  • telegram or mailing list - but i’d thought i’d offer my 2 cents here. i
    hope this is ok.

i’d recommend going for something slightly smaller than going for
absolute maximum’s. i don’t see a point of a cnc if it’s not accurate
enough to be asked to do jobs. if the ox cnc people recommend against using
the maximum dimensions due to keeping the backslash in check then we should
follow that advice.

also, it may be worth looking at something which comes will all the
stuff we need to make the cnc with minimal effort. since there are already
so many tasks to be done with the hackspace putting another complicated job
onto the list will make it less likely to get finished. i’m not sure if the
x-carve from inventables or the Shapeoko - Carbide 3D or the ox cnc are
easier to build. no idea.

i could assist in the assembly of a simple to use kit. but for more
than that i’m afraid i may not be of much help.

bests,
const

On 20 May 2016 at 10:17, ‘garlicbread (Richard)’ via Hackspace Manchester hac...@googlegroups.com wrote:

On Friday, May 20, 2016 at 7:15:10 AM UTC+1, Skippy McGaw wrote:

On 20 May 2016, at 02:56, ‘garlicbread (Richard)’ via Hackspace Manchester hac...@googlegroups.com wrote:

Hi,
I’ve been adding some stuff to a github repo with different ideas etc

There is a github repo for a discussion? perhaps for storing
settings and etc but not a great location for talking about things.

Its more a set of examples / list of parts / notes that I pulled
together when building my own one at home
Any discussion i agree is best kept to the mailing lists etc
I was originally asked by Chris for a hypothetical example but I’m
fully open to different ideas / models / everything etc

I’ll post the link once I’ve finished adding in some more bits in

(different options for stepper drivers / electronics etc)

  • I like the idea of being able to add different types of heads
    and adapt later on, such as drag knifes / 5 or 6 axis with a lathe chuck /
    3d print head / uv exposure head for pcbs / edm etc, the vslot on the z
    axis should make this easier.

The product Tas linked to has the provision for fitting with
different heads

Yeah I just meant if we decided to go for something else like an
x-carve or a shapeoko for example, they don’t seem to have slots for the
heads

5/6 axis etc can be fitted to the little CNC machine we already

acquired from MadLAB (WSFG printed on the side)

UV exposure head???

The guys over at this site http://www.diyouware.com/ managed to
figure out how to get a PHR-803T blu-ray pickup working
the idea is you put some UV sensitive board underneath then "print"
the pcb tracks with the head
although they’re design seems to move the board around instead of the
head to avoid vibration issues

Also it would not work well as a 3D printer as the build area would

be massively hard to temperature control.

I agree, also you wouldn’t get much on the Z Height without replacing
the extrusion on the Z Axis
(but that shouldn’t stop us from trying :slight_smile: )

  • For the software personally I think chillipepr might be the best
    way to go to start (http://chilipeppr.com/grbl) with a cheap
    controller board, although this means the firmware would probably need to
    be grbl / tinyg / tinyg2 which in turn affects which board we use

I would like to hear Ian and Toms feedback on this as they are
building one for LAMM so will have hands on experience

  • Turning 3d models into g-code involves CAM software, (like a
    slicer for a 3d printer) usually cam software has a thing called a
    pre-processor to output for different boards / firmwares, so that’s worth
    taking into consideration (e.g. hsmworks, asprire, jscut for cam)

again LAMM peeps

  • Personally I think an ideal setup would be a beaglebone green
    with an rpi3 / touch screen using machinekit. since it has lots of fancy
    realtime stuff / motion control such as using the PRU’s of the beaglebone.
    (but I haven’t looked into setting that up yet)

Once Funded and Built, in the medium term would it be worth getting
some experience on the WSFG CNC?

That’s one option
I’ve managed to get an old emf badge from Bob that’s got the same IC
as an arduino due on it
I’m hoping I can combine it with the existing polulu drivers from the
proxon mill and a custom breakout board to make the proxon use chillipepr /
tinyg2. I think I’ve got the tinyg2 side figured out for that one and just
need to get around to making the break out board

  • For the mechanical parts on average it takes about 2 days for
    one person to put together an Ox kit

  • One idea is that we put resin or epoxy into the extrusion to
    make it more rigid

Would this not risk permanent deformation? as plastics tend not to
return once relaxed?

In the cnc forums there’s been a few different discussions of
different mixtures of materials
although from the looks of it some of it is more for damping
vibration than adding strength
I don’t have a link to hand, but if you google cnc expoxy granite for
example

Another link is

http://openbuilds.org/builds/the-bull-dog-a-rovercnc-ox-based-1500mm-x-1500mm-cnc-tutorial-build.2815/
This one is probably more expensive since it’s C-Beam, and needs
more wheels, also I don’t think it’s in kit form like the ox
There’s quite a lot of other custom builds on that site

The other most popular ones I’ve seen are the shapeoko or the
x-carve. But they seem less hackable, and I think it might be expensive to
get them shipped from the US unless there is a UK distributor somewhere

On Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 10:35:39 PM UTC+1, tas kay wrote:

Hi all,

There’s been a lot of discussion recently, in both our physical and

digital spaces about getting a CNC router for the space. It’s no
secret
that Bob and I for example have been lusting after one for a while.

Ideally we’d like to find something affordable that can easily take
a
whole sheet of ply.

Richard has suggested this router
http://ooznest.co.uk/OX-CNC-Machine/OX-CNC-Mechanical-Kit which
can,
with a bit of tweaking, go up to 1500mm x 1500mm. This would cost
in the
region of £1000 to buy, plus time etc to put together (I’ve not
done any
detailed costings because right now this is just the germ of an
idea).

The others that I’ve been looking at are considerably smaller (big
enough for my purposes but perhaps not for those of other members),
so
I’m not going to bother linking them right now.

If anyone has any other / better / different suggestions we’d be
glad to
hear and consider them so that we can pick the most suitable bit of
kit
for the space prior to running a pledge drive for it.

Best,

Tamarisk


You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
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You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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I also agree, in the short term it would allow us to get a grip of the
software and some experience milling
Later on it might also allow us to mill out some steel plates if we decided
to go the homebrew approach
(cnc creating another cnc)

Bob mentioned in telegram
robocutters http://www.robocutters.co.uk/products.asp?cat=1
I really like some of the models on there
But when I googled “robocutters cnc review” it led to some bad reviews
unfortunately

This is a link to the leeds hackspace CNC for info
https://wiki.leedshackspace.org.uk/wiki/CNC_MillOn Monday, May 23, 2016 at 5:51:00 PM UTC+1, Alexander Lang wrote:

I’m in agreement with Bob. Let’s take Simon up on his very kind offer
which will give us all the experience needed to move forward.

Alex

On Mon, 23 May 2016, 14:57 Bob Clough, <b...@clough.me <javascript:>> wrote:

Personally, I think it might be better short-term to take Simon up on his
offer of a loan of his shapeoko2:

In the short term, I have a stock Shapeoko 2 that I’d be happy to loan to

the space if anyone’s interested. It’s a toy compared to the likes of a
ShopBot - doesn’t even have a proper spindle yet, still has the supplied KO
rotary tool - but should at least be usable. Let me know if interested.

This would allow us to sort out things like the toolchain and care and
maintenance of a CNC in the space (which is something we’ve never quite
gotten off the ground with the existing PCB milling machines) - And once
people are familiar with using them, at that point we can price out
different options and figure out funding sources for BIG CNC machines.

I have a spare 300W ER11 spindle in the space (because reasons) that we
could (reversibly) transplant onto it if Simon is OK with that - I’m sure
we could CNC up a mounting bracket for it :slight_smile:

-Bob

On 22 May 2016 at 22:13, ‘garlicbread (Richard)’ via Hackspace Manchester <hac...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>> wrote:

Just to follow
I tried to look into what problems there might be with going max size
1.5m x 1.5m

First I found these threads

http://www.openbuilds.com/threads/stop-x-axis-flex-on-the-ox.6859/#post-35760
http://www.openbuilds.com/threads/beavers-ox-1500.4408/
Basically there are 2 60x20 extrusions that go across for the X Axis
(left to right) with a 3rd bar further back
One of the problems is when the spindle is dead center, you end up with
a torsion effect where the spin of the spindle causes a twist when the X
axis is very long.
one fix is to try and glue or bolt these two extrusions together
one of the above threads suggests 8mm bolts with about 150mm spacing

Next I asked ooznest if they had any experience with very large
machines, they’re response was:

We put that warning up, because one customer did have an issue with
accurate re-positioning of the tool head. However we have sold many of that
size since then without any issues.
If you are planning to do mainly wood work with the machine, then that
size shouldn’t cause any issues.
Bolting or glue the rails together would help a lot. Another mod you can
do is by doubling the belts, if you look up OX Double belt mod, it will
explain what i mean better.

after a bit of searching I found this for the double belt mod
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXjLuLqFb-U

On Friday, May 20, 2016 at 10:45:13 PM UTC+1, Constantin Popp wrote:

Wow, that looks amazing.
On 20 May 2016 16:30, “‘garlicbread (Richard)’ via Hackspace Manchester” hac...@googlegroups.com wrote:

Hi Constantin

I can’t comment on the other devices, but I’d say mechanically the ox
is one of the easiest kits I’ve put together
everything is pre-cut and pre-tapped and labeled and boxed (Greg would
be proud)
I think the only problem I came up against was a single nackered T-nut
(you get a bag of spares)
It took just a couple of days to screw and bolt everything together

http://ooznest.co.uk/image/data/products/OX/OX-Assembly-Manual.pdf

One thing that’s open ended is which electronics you use, the Nema 23
motors take around 2.8A / 3A
(you can run them with lower current you just lose out on the torque)
Also soldering avionics connectors was a bit of a pain

My thoughts were we could start out with some cheap aliexpress
DRV8825’s pololu’s / shield just to get things up and running
then move to some TMC2660’s later on which can manage 4A and have all
the fancy torque measuring features via spi
The attached is a smaller version I’ve got sitting in the loft at the
moment
I’m still trying to find the time to finish off the end stops

On Friday, May 20, 2016 at 2:14:14 PM UTC+1, Constantin Popp wrote:

not sure one where the right place is to chime into the cnc
discussion - telegram or mailing list - but i’d thought i’d offer my 2
cents here. i hope this is ok.

i’d recommend going for something slightly smaller than going for
absolute maximum’s. i don’t see a point of a cnc if it’s not accurate
enough to be asked to do jobs. if the ox cnc people recommend against using
the maximum dimensions due to keeping the backslash in check then we should
follow that advice.

also, it may be worth looking at something which comes will all the
stuff we need to make the cnc with minimal effort. since there are already
so many tasks to be done with the hackspace putting another complicated job
onto the list will make it less likely to get finished. i’m not sure if the
x-carve from inventables or the Shapeoko - Carbide 3D or the ox cnc are
easier to build. no idea.

i could assist in the assembly of a simple to use kit. but for more
than that i’m afraid i may not be of much help.

bests,
const

On 20 May 2016 at 10:17, ‘garlicbread (Richard)’ via Hackspace Manchester hac...@googlegroups.com wrote:

On Friday, May 20, 2016 at 7:15:10 AM UTC+1, Skippy McGaw wrote:

On 20 May 2016, at 02:56, ‘garlicbread (Richard)’ via Hackspace Manchester hac...@googlegroups.com wrote:

Hi,
I’ve been adding some stuff to a github repo with different ideas
etc

There is a github repo for a discussion? perhaps for storing
settings and etc but not a great location for talking about things.

Its more a set of examples / list of parts / notes that I pulled
together when building my own one at home
Any discussion i agree is best kept to the mailing lists etc
I was originally asked by Chris for a hypothetical example but I’m
fully open to different ideas / models / everything etc

I’ll post the link once I’ve finished adding in some more bits in

(different options for stepper drivers / electronics etc)

  • I like the idea of being able to add different types of heads
    and adapt later on, such as drag knifes / 5 or 6 axis with a lathe chuck /
    3d print head / uv exposure head for pcbs / edm etc, the vslot on the z
    axis should make this easier.

The product Tas linked to has the provision for fitting with
different heads

Yeah I just meant if we decided to go for something else like an
x-carve or a shapeoko for example, they don’t seem to have slots for the
heads

5/6 axis etc can be fitted to the little CNC machine we already

acquired from MadLAB (WSFG printed on the side)

UV exposure head???

The guys over at this site http://www.diyouware.com/ managed to
figure out how to get a PHR-803T blu-ray pickup working
the idea is you put some UV sensitive board underneath then "print"
the pcb tracks with the head
although they’re design seems to move the board around instead of
the head to avoid vibration issues

Also it would not work well as a 3D printer as the build area would

be massively hard to temperature control.

I agree, also you wouldn’t get much on the Z Height without
replacing the extrusion on the Z Axis
(but that shouldn’t stop us from trying :slight_smile: )

  • For the software personally I think chillipepr might be the
    best way to go to start (http://chilipeppr.com/grbl) with a cheap
    controller board, although this means the firmware would probably need to
    be grbl / tinyg / tinyg2 which in turn affects which board we use

I would like to hear Ian and Toms feedback on this as they are
building one for LAMM so will have hands on experience

  • Turning 3d models into g-code involves CAM software, (like a
    slicer for a 3d printer) usually cam software has a thing called a
    pre-processor to output for different boards / firmwares, so that’s worth
    taking into consideration (e.g. hsmworks, asprire, jscut for cam)

again LAMM peeps

  • Personally I think an ideal setup would be a beaglebone green
    with an rpi3 / touch screen using machinekit. since it has lots of fancy
    realtime stuff / motion control such as using the PRU’s of the beaglebone.
    (but I haven’t looked into setting that up yet)

Once Funded and Built, in the medium term would it be worth getting
some experience on the WSFG CNC?

That’s one option
I’ve managed to get an old emf badge from Bob that’s got the same IC
as an arduino due on it
I’m hoping I can combine it with the existing polulu drivers from
the proxon mill and a custom breakout board to make the proxon use
chillipepr / tinyg2. I think I’ve got the tinyg2 side figured out for that
one and just need to get around to making the break out board

  • For the mechanical parts on average it takes about 2 days for
    one person to put together an Ox kit

  • One idea is that we put resin or epoxy into the extrusion to
    make it more rigid

Would this not risk permanent deformation? as plastics tend not to
return once relaxed?

In the cnc forums there’s been a few different discussions of
different mixtures of materials
although from the looks of it some of it is more for damping
vibration than adding strength
I don’t have a link to hand, but if you google cnc expoxy granite
for example

Another link is

http://openbuilds.org/builds/the-bull-dog-a-rovercnc-ox-based-1500mm-x-1500mm-cnc-tutorial-build.2815/
This one is probably more expensive since it’s C-Beam, and needs
more wheels, also I don’t think it’s in kit form like the ox
There’s quite a lot of other custom builds on that site

The other most popular ones I’ve seen are the shapeoko or the
x-carve. But they seem less hackable, and I think it might be expensive to
get them shipped from the US unless there is a UK distributor somewhere

On Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 10:35:39 PM UTC+1, tas kay wrote:

Hi all,

There’s been a lot of discussion recently, in both our physical and

digital spaces about getting a CNC router for the space. It’s no
secret
that Bob and I for example have been lusting after one for a while.

Ideally we’d like to find something affordable that can easily
take a
whole sheet of ply.

Richard has suggested this router
http://ooznest.co.uk/OX-CNC-Machine/OX-CNC-Mechanical-Kit which
can,
with a bit of tweaking, go up to 1500mm x 1500mm. This would cost
in the
region of £1000 to buy, plus time etc to put together (I’ve not
done any
detailed costings because right now this is just the germ of an
idea).

The others that I’ve been looking at are considerably smaller (big

enough for my purposes but perhaps not for those of other
members), so
I’m not going to bother linking them right now.

If anyone has any other / better / different suggestions we’d be
glad to
hear and consider them so that we can pick the most suitable bit
of kit
for the space prior to running a pledge drive for it.

Best,

Tamarisk


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While their returns policy checks out (a concern raised in some of the forums) this guy does seem to think that making and dissolving companies without returning accounts is the way to do business.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/officers/ogxSIgw3gYA84j09g1p5wffYWFo/appointments

I wouldn’t pay much heed to comments about avoiding companies who have a residential registered address. It’s no more significant than paying for an office address and plenty of companies do that.

tamarisk

p: 07949 151 100
e: tamarisk@tamarisk.it
t: @notquitehere> On 24 May 2016, at 22:46, ‘garlicbread (Richard)’ via Hackspace Manchester hacman@googlegroups.com wrote:

I also agree, in the short term it would allow us to get a grip of the software and some experience milling
Later on it might also allow us to mill out some steel plates if we decided to go the homebrew approach
(cnc creating another cnc)

Bob mentioned in telegram robocutters http://www.robocutters.co.uk/products.asp?cat=1
I really like some of the models on there
But when I googled “robocutters cnc review” it led to some bad reviews unfortunately

This is a link to the leeds hackspace CNC for info
https://wiki.leedshackspace.org.uk/wiki/CNC_Mill

On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 5:51:00 PM UTC+1, Alexander Lang wrote:
I’m in agreement with Bob. Let’s take Simon up on his very kind offer which will give us all the experience needed to move forward.

Alex

On Mon, 23 May 2016, 14:57 Bob Clough, b...@clough.me wrote:
Personally, I think it might be better short-term to take Simon up on his offer of a loan of his shapeoko2:

In the short term, I have a stock Shapeoko 2 that I’d be happy to loan to the space if anyone’s interested. It’s a toy compared to the likes of a ShopBot - doesn’t even have a proper spindle yet, still has the supplied KO rotary tool - but should at least be usable. Let me know if interested.

This would allow us to sort out things like the toolchain and care and maintenance of a CNC in the space (which is something we’ve never quite gotten off the ground with the existing PCB milling machines) - And once people are familiar with using them, at that point we can price out different options and figure out funding sources for BIG CNC machines.

I have a spare 300W ER11 spindle in the space (because reasons) that we could (reversibly) transplant onto it if Simon is OK with that - I’m sure we could CNC up a mounting bracket for it :slight_smile:

-Bob

On 22 May 2016 at 22:13, ‘garlicbread (Richard)’ via Hackspace Manchester hac...@googlegroups.com wrote:
Just to follow
I tried to look into what problems there might be with going max size 1.5m x 1.5m

First I found these threads
http://www.openbuilds.com/threads/stop-x-axis-flex-on-the-ox.6859/#post-35760
http://www.openbuilds.com/threads/beavers-ox-1500.4408/
Basically there are 2 60x20 extrusions that go across for the X Axis (left to right) with a 3rd bar further back
One of the problems is when the spindle is dead center, you end up with a torsion effect where the spin of the spindle causes a twist when the X axis is very long.
one fix is to try and glue or bolt these two extrusions together
one of the above threads suggests 8mm bolts with about 150mm spacing

Next I asked ooznest if they had any experience with very large machines, they’re response was:

We put that warning up, because one customer did have an issue with accurate re-positioning of the tool head. However we have sold many of that size since then without any issues.
If you are planning to do mainly wood work with the machine, then that size shouldn’t cause any issues.
Bolting or glue the rails together would help a lot. Another mod you can do is by doubling the belts, if you look up OX Double belt mod, it will explain what i mean better.

after a bit of searching I found this for the double belt mod
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXjLuLqFb-U

On Friday, May 20, 2016 at 10:45:13 PM UTC+1, Constantin Popp wrote:
Wow, that looks amazing.

On 20 May 2016 16:30, “‘garlicbread (Richard)’ via Hackspace Manchester” hac...@googlegroups.com wrote:
Hi Constantin

I can’t comment on the other devices, but I’d say mechanically the ox is one of the easiest kits I’ve put together
everything is pre-cut and pre-tapped and labeled and boxed (Greg would be proud)
I think the only problem I came up against was a single nackered T-nut (you get a bag of spares)
It took just a couple of days to screw and bolt everything together

http://ooznest.co.uk/image/data/products/OX/OX-Assembly-Manual.pdf

One thing that’s open ended is which electronics you use, the Nema 23 motors take around 2.8A / 3A
(you can run them with lower current you just lose out on the torque)
Also soldering avionics connectors was a bit of a pain

My thoughts were we could start out with some cheap aliexpress DRV8825’s pololu’s / shield just to get things up and running
then move to some TMC2660’s later on which can manage 4A and have all the fancy torque measuring features via spi
The attached is a smaller version I’ve got sitting in the loft at the moment
I’m still trying to find the time to finish off the end stops

On Friday, May 20, 2016 at 2:14:14 PM UTC+1, Constantin Popp wrote:
not sure one where the right place is to chime into the cnc discussion - telegram or mailing list - but i’d thought i’d offer my 2 cents here. i hope this is ok.

i’d recommend going for something slightly smaller than going for absolute maximum’s. i don’t see a point of a cnc if it’s not accurate enough to be asked to do jobs. if the ox cnc people recommend against using the maximum dimensions due to keeping the backslash in check then we should follow that advice.

also, it may be worth looking at something which comes will all the stuff we need to make the cnc with minimal effort. since there are already so many tasks to be done with the hackspace putting another complicated job onto the list will make it less likely to get finished. i’m not sure if the x-carve from inventables or the Shapeoko - Carbide 3D or the ox cnc are easier to build. no idea.

i could assist in the assembly of a simple to use kit. but for more than that i’m afraid i may not be of much help.

bests,
const

On 20 May 2016 at 10:17, ‘garlicbread (Richard)’ via Hackspace Manchester hac...@googlegroups.com wrote:

On Friday, May 20, 2016 at 7:15:10 AM UTC+1, Skippy McGaw wrote:

On 20 May 2016, at 02:56, ‘garlicbread (Richard)’ via Hackspace Manchester hac...@googlegroups.com wrote:

Hi,
I’ve been adding some stuff to a github repo with different ideas etc

There is a github repo for a discussion? perhaps for storing settings and etc but not a great location for talking about things.

Its more a set of examples / list of parts / notes that I pulled together when building my own one at home
Any discussion i agree is best kept to the mailing lists etc
I was originally asked by Chris for a hypothetical example but I’m fully open to different ideas / models / everything etc

I’ll post the link once I’ve finished adding in some more bits in (different options for stepper drivers / electronics etc)

  • I like the idea of being able to add different types of heads and adapt later on, such as drag knifes / 5 or 6 axis with a lathe chuck / 3d print head / uv exposure head for pcbs / edm etc, the vslot on the z axis should make this easier.

The product Tas linked to has the provision for fitting with different heads

Yeah I just meant if we decided to go for something else like an x-carve or a shapeoko for example, they don’t seem to have slots for the heads

5/6 axis etc can be fitted to the little CNC machine we already acquired from MadLAB (WSFG printed on the side)

UV exposure head???

The guys over at this site http://www.diyouware.com/ managed to figure out how to get a PHR-803T blu-ray pickup working
the idea is you put some UV sensitive board underneath then “print” the pcb tracks with the head
although they’re design seems to move the board around instead of the head to avoid vibration issues

Also it would not work well as a 3D printer as the build area would be massively hard to temperature control.

I agree, also you wouldn’t get much on the Z Height without replacing the extrusion on the Z Axis
(but that shouldn’t stop us from trying :slight_smile: )

  • For the software personally I think chillipepr might be the best way to go to start (http://chilipeppr.com/grbl) with a cheap controller board, although this means the firmware would probably need to be grbl / tinyg / tinyg2 which in turn affects which board we use

I would like to hear Ian and Toms feedback on this as they are building one for LAMM so will have hands on experience

  • Turning 3d models into g-code involves CAM software, (like a slicer for a 3d printer) usually cam software has a thing called a pre-processor to output for different boards / firmwares, so that’s worth taking into consideration (e.g. hsmworks, asprire, jscut for cam)

again LAMM peeps

  • Personally I think an ideal setup would be a beaglebone green with an rpi3 / touch screen using machinekit. since it has lots of fancy realtime stuff / motion control such as using the PRU’s of the beaglebone. (but I haven’t looked into setting that up yet)

Once Funded and Built, in the medium term would it be worth getting some experience on the WSFG CNC?

That’s one option
I’ve managed to get an old emf badge from Bob that’s got the same IC as an arduino due on it
I’m hoping I can combine it with the existing polulu drivers from the proxon mill and a custom breakout board to make the proxon use chillipepr / tinyg2. I think I’ve got the tinyg2 side figured out for that one and just need to get around to making the break out board

  • For the mechanical parts on average it takes about 2 days for one person to put together an Ox kit
  • One idea is that we put resin or epoxy into the extrusion to make it more rigid

Would this not risk permanent deformation? as plastics tend not to return once relaxed?

In the cnc forums there’s been a few different discussions of different mixtures of materials
although from the looks of it some of it is more for damping vibration than adding strength
I don’t have a link to hand, but if you google cnc expoxy granite for example

Another link is
http://openbuilds.org/builds/the-bull-dog-a-rovercnc-ox-based-1500mm-x-1500mm-cnc-tutorial-build.2815/
This one is probably more expensive since it’s C-Beam, and needs more wheels, also I don’t think it’s in kit form like the ox
There’s quite a lot of other custom builds on that site

The other most popular ones I’ve seen are the shapeoko or the x-carve. But they seem less hackable, and I think it might be expensive to get them shipped from the US unless there is a UK distributor somewhere

On Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 10:35:39 PM UTC+1, tas kay wrote:
Hi all,

There’s been a lot of discussion recently, in both our physical and
digital spaces about getting a CNC router for the space. It’s no secret
that Bob and I for example have been lusting after one for a while.

Ideally we’d like to find something affordable that can easily take a
whole sheet of ply.

Richard has suggested this router
http://ooznest.co.uk/OX-CNC-Machine/OX-CNC-Mechanical-Kit which can,
with a bit of tweaking, go up to 1500mm x 1500mm. This would cost in the
region of £1000 to buy, plus time etc to put together (I’ve not done any
detailed costings because right now this is just the germ of an idea).

The others that I’ve been looking at are considerably smaller (big
enough for my purposes but perhaps not for those of other members), so
I’m not going to bother linking them right now.

If anyone has any other / better / different suggestions we’d be glad to
hear and consider them so that we can pick the most suitable bit of kit
for the space prior to running a pledge drive for it.

Best,

Tamarisk


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Oh forgot to add. Yes I too think we should take Simon up on his extremely kind offer :slight_smile:

tamarisk

p: 07949 151 100
e: tamarisk@tamarisk.it
t: @notquitehere> On 25 May 2016, at 07:14, tamarisk Kay tamarisk@tamarisk.it wrote:

While their returns policy checks out (a concern raised in some of the forums) this guy does seem to think that making and dissolving companies without returning accounts is the way to do business.

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/officers/ogxSIgw3gYA84j09g1p5wffYWFo/appointments

I wouldn’t pay much heed to comments about avoiding companies who have a residential registered address. It’s no more significant than paying for an office address and plenty of companies do that.

tamarisk

p: 07949 151 100
e: tamarisk@tamarisk.it
t: @notquitehere

On 24 May 2016, at 22:46, ‘garlicbread (Richard)’ via Hackspace Manchester hacman@googlegroups.com wrote:

I also agree, in the short term it would allow us to get a grip of the software and some experience milling
Later on it might also allow us to mill out some steel plates if we decided to go the homebrew approach
(cnc creating another cnc)

Bob mentioned in telegram robocutters http://www.robocutters.co.uk/products.asp?cat=1
I really like some of the models on there
But when I googled “robocutters cnc review” it led to some bad reviews unfortunately

This is a link to the leeds hackspace CNC for info
https://wiki.leedshackspace.org.uk/wiki/CNC_Mill

On Monday, May 23, 2016 at 5:51:00 PM UTC+1, Alexander Lang wrote:
I’m in agreement with Bob. Let’s take Simon up on his very kind offer which will give us all the experience needed to move forward.

Alex

On Mon, 23 May 2016, 14:57 Bob Clough, b...@clough.me wrote:
Personally, I think it might be better short-term to take Simon up on his offer of a loan of his shapeoko2:

In the short term, I have a stock Shapeoko 2 that I’d be happy to loan to the space if anyone’s interested. It’s a toy compared to the likes of a ShopBot - doesn’t even have a proper spindle yet, still has the supplied KO rotary tool - but should at least be usable. Let me know if interested.

This would allow us to sort out things like the toolchain and care and maintenance of a CNC in the space (which is something we’ve never quite gotten off the ground with the existing PCB milling machines) - And once people are familiar with using them, at that point we can price out different options and figure out funding sources for BIG CNC machines.

I have a spare 300W ER11 spindle in the space (because reasons) that we could (reversibly) transplant onto it if Simon is OK with that - I’m sure we could CNC up a mounting bracket for it :slight_smile:

-Bob

On 22 May 2016 at 22:13, ‘garlicbread (Richard)’ via Hackspace Manchester hac...@googlegroups.com wrote:
Just to follow
I tried to look into what problems there might be with going max size 1.5m x 1.5m

First I found these threads
http://www.openbuilds.com/threads/stop-x-axis-flex-on-the-ox.6859/#post-35760
http://www.openbuilds.com/threads/beavers-ox-1500.4408/
Basically there are 2 60x20 extrusions that go across for the X Axis (left to right) with a 3rd bar further back
One of the problems is when the spindle is dead center, you end up with a torsion effect where the spin of the spindle causes a twist when the X axis is very long.
one fix is to try and glue or bolt these two extrusions together
one of the above threads suggests 8mm bolts with about 150mm spacing

Next I asked ooznest if they had any experience with very large machines, they’re response was:

We put that warning up, because one customer did have an issue with accurate re-positioning of the tool head. However we have sold many of that size since then without any issues.
If you are planning to do mainly wood work with the machine, then that size shouldn’t cause any issues.
Bolting or glue the rails together would help a lot. Another mod you can do is by doubling the belts, if you look up OX Double belt mod, it will explain what i mean better.

after a bit of searching I found this for the double belt mod
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXjLuLqFb-U

On Friday, May 20, 2016 at 10:45:13 PM UTC+1, Constantin Popp wrote:
Wow, that looks amazing.

On 20 May 2016 16:30, “‘garlicbread (Richard)’ via Hackspace Manchester” hac...@googlegroups.com wrote:
Hi Constantin

I can’t comment on the other devices, but I’d say mechanically the ox is one of the easiest kits I’ve put together
everything is pre-cut and pre-tapped and labeled and boxed (Greg would be proud)
I think the only problem I came up against was a single nackered T-nut (you get a bag of spares)
It took just a couple of days to screw and bolt everything together

http://ooznest.co.uk/image/data/products/OX/OX-Assembly-Manual.pdf

One thing that’s open ended is which electronics you use, the Nema 23 motors take around 2.8A / 3A
(you can run them with lower current you just lose out on the torque)
Also soldering avionics connectors was a bit of a pain

My thoughts were we could start out with some cheap aliexpress DRV8825’s pololu’s / shield just to get things up and running
then move to some TMC2660’s later on which can manage 4A and have all the fancy torque measuring features via spi
The attached is a smaller version I’ve got sitting in the loft at the moment
I’m still trying to find the time to finish off the end stops

On Friday, May 20, 2016 at 2:14:14 PM UTC+1, Constantin Popp wrote:
not sure one where the right place is to chime into the cnc discussion - telegram or mailing list - but i’d thought i’d offer my 2 cents here. i hope this is ok.

i’d recommend going for something slightly smaller than going for absolute maximum’s. i don’t see a point of a cnc if it’s not accurate enough to be asked to do jobs. if the ox cnc people recommend against using the maximum dimensions due to keeping the backslash in check then we should follow that advice.

also, it may be worth looking at something which comes will all the stuff we need to make the cnc with minimal effort. since there are already so many tasks to be done with the hackspace putting another complicated job onto the list will make it less likely to get finished. i’m not sure if the x-carve from inventables or the Shapeoko - Carbide 3D or the ox cnc are easier to build. no idea.

i could assist in the assembly of a simple to use kit. but for more than that i’m afraid i may not be of much help.

bests,
const

On 20 May 2016 at 10:17, ‘garlicbread (Richard)’ via Hackspace Manchester hac...@googlegroups.com wrote:

On Friday, May 20, 2016 at 7:15:10 AM UTC+1, Skippy McGaw wrote:

On 20 May 2016, at 02:56, ‘garlicbread (Richard)’ via Hackspace Manchester hac...@googlegroups.com wrote:

Hi,
I’ve been adding some stuff to a github repo with different ideas etc

There is a github repo for a discussion? perhaps for storing settings and etc but not a great location for talking about things.

Its more a set of examples / list of parts / notes that I pulled together when building my own one at home
Any discussion i agree is best kept to the mailing lists etc
I was originally asked by Chris for a hypothetical example but I’m fully open to different ideas / models / everything etc

I’ll post the link once I’ve finished adding in some more bits in (different options for stepper drivers / electronics etc)

  • I like the idea of being able to add different types of heads and adapt later on, such as drag knifes / 5 or 6 axis with a lathe chuck / 3d print head / uv exposure head for pcbs / edm etc, the vslot on the z axis should make this easier.

The product Tas linked to has the provision for fitting with different heads

Yeah I just meant if we decided to go for something else like an x-carve or a shapeoko for example, they don’t seem to have slots for the heads

5/6 axis etc can be fitted to the little CNC machine we already acquired from MadLAB (WSFG printed on the side)

UV exposure head???

The guys over at this site http://www.diyouware.com/ managed to figure out how to get a PHR-803T blu-ray pickup working
the idea is you put some UV sensitive board underneath then “print” the pcb tracks with the head
although they’re design seems to move the board around instead of the head to avoid vibration issues

Also it would not work well as a 3D printer as the build area would be massively hard to temperature control.

I agree, also you wouldn’t get much on the Z Height without replacing the extrusion on the Z Axis
(but that shouldn’t stop us from trying :slight_smile: )

  • For the software personally I think chillipepr might be the best way to go to start (http://chilipeppr.com/grbl) with a cheap controller board, although this means the firmware would probably need to be grbl / tinyg / tinyg2 which in turn affects which board we use

I would like to hear Ian and Toms feedback on this as they are building one for LAMM so will have hands on experience

  • Turning 3d models into g-code involves CAM software, (like a slicer for a 3d printer) usually cam software has a thing called a pre-processor to output for different boards / firmwares, so that’s worth taking into consideration (e.g. hsmworks, asprire, jscut for cam)

again LAMM peeps

  • Personally I think an ideal setup would be a beaglebone green with an rpi3 / touch screen using machinekit. since it has lots of fancy realtime stuff / motion control such as using the PRU’s of the beaglebone. (but I haven’t looked into setting that up yet)

Once Funded and Built, in the medium term would it be worth getting some experience on the WSFG CNC?

That’s one option
I’ve managed to get an old emf badge from Bob that’s got the same IC as an arduino due on it
I’m hoping I can combine it with the existing polulu drivers from the proxon mill and a custom breakout board to make the proxon use chillipepr / tinyg2. I think I’ve got the tinyg2 side figured out for that one and just need to get around to making the break out board

  • For the mechanical parts on average it takes about 2 days for one person to put together an Ox kit
  • One idea is that we put resin or epoxy into the extrusion to make it more rigid

Would this not risk permanent deformation? as plastics tend not to return once relaxed?

In the cnc forums there’s been a few different discussions of different mixtures of materials
although from the looks of it some of it is more for damping vibration than adding strength
I don’t have a link to hand, but if you google cnc expoxy granite for example

Another link is
http://openbuilds.org/builds/the-bull-dog-a-rovercnc-ox-based-1500mm-x-1500mm-cnc-tutorial-build.2815/
This one is probably more expensive since it’s C-Beam, and needs more wheels, also I don’t think it’s in kit form like the ox
There’s quite a lot of other custom builds on that site

The other most popular ones I’ve seen are the shapeoko or the x-carve. But they seem less hackable, and I think it might be expensive to get them shipped from the US unless there is a UK distributor somewhere

On Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 10:35:39 PM UTC+1, tas kay wrote:
Hi all,

There’s been a lot of discussion recently, in both our physical and
digital spaces about getting a CNC router for the space. It’s no secret
that Bob and I for example have been lusting after one for a while.

Ideally we’d like to find something affordable that can easily take a
whole sheet of ply.

Richard has suggested this router
http://ooznest.co.uk/OX-CNC-Machine/OX-CNC-Mechanical-Kit which can,
with a bit of tweaking, go up to 1500mm x 1500mm. This would cost in the
region of £1000 to buy, plus time etc to put together (I’ve not done any
detailed costings because right now this is just the germ of an idea).

The others that I’ve been looking at are considerably smaller (big
enough for my purposes but perhaps not for those of other members), so
I’m not going to bother linking them right now.

If anyone has any other / better / different suggestions we’d be glad to
hear and consider them so that we can pick the most suitable bit of kit
for the space prior to running a pledge drive for it.

Best,

Tamarisk


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Hi Bob,

No problem with that at all. I have a small range of 3mm bits for the
rotary tool - end mill, ball nose, v-bit - which I think can be used with
an ER-11 collet?

I’m planning to be at the space some time this weekend to help out with the
HtS work so should be able to bring the Shapeoko with me. It may as well
live at the space and be useful rather than sit on my table as an expensive
paperweight!

-SimonOn 23 May 2016 at 14:57, Bob Clough bob@clough.me wrote:

Personally, I think it might be better short-term to take Simon up on his
offer of a loan of his shapeoko2:

In the short term, I have a stock Shapeoko 2 that I’d be happy to loan to

the space if anyone’s interested. It’s a toy compared to the likes of a
ShopBot - doesn’t even have a proper spindle yet, still has the supplied KO
rotary tool - but should at least be usable. Let me know if interested.

This would allow us to sort out things like the toolchain and care and
maintenance of a CNC in the space (which is something we’ve never quite
gotten off the ground with the existing PCB milling machines) - And once
people are familiar with using them, at that point we can price out
different options and figure out funding sources for BIG CNC machines.

I have a spare 300W ER11 spindle in the space (because reasons) that we
could (reversibly) transplant onto it if Simon is OK with that - I’m sure
we could CNC up a mounting bracket for it :slight_smile:

-Bob

On 22 May 2016 at 22:13, ‘garlicbread (Richard)’ via Hackspace Manchester hacman@googlegroups.com wrote:

Just to follow
I tried to look into what problems there might be with going max size
1.5m x 1.5m

First I found these threads

http://www.openbuilds.com/threads/stop-x-axis-flex-on-the-ox.6859/#post-35760
http://www.openbuilds.com/threads/beavers-ox-1500.4408/
Basically there are 2 60x20 extrusions that go across for the X Axis
(left to right) with a 3rd bar further back
One of the problems is when the spindle is dead center, you end up with a
torsion effect where the spin of the spindle causes a twist when the X axis
is very long.
one fix is to try and glue or bolt these two extrusions together
one of the above threads suggests 8mm bolts with about 150mm spacing

Next I asked ooznest if they had any experience with very large machines,
they’re response was:

We put that warning up, because one customer did have an issue with
accurate re-positioning of the tool head. However we have sold many of that
size since then without any issues.
If you are planning to do mainly wood work with the machine, then that
size shouldn’t cause any issues.
Bolting or glue the rails together would help a lot. Another mod you can
do is by doubling the belts, if you look up OX Double belt mod, it will
explain what i mean better.

after a bit of searching I found this for the double belt mod
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXjLuLqFb-U

On Friday, May 20, 2016 at 10:45:13 PM UTC+1, Constantin Popp wrote:

Wow, that looks amazing.
On 20 May 2016 16:30, “‘garlicbread (Richard)’ via Hackspace Manchester” hac...@googlegroups.com wrote:

Hi Constantin

I can’t comment on the other devices, but I’d say mechanically the ox
is one of the easiest kits I’ve put together
everything is pre-cut and pre-tapped and labeled and boxed (Greg would
be proud)
I think the only problem I came up against was a single nackered T-nut
(you get a bag of spares)
It took just a couple of days to screw and bolt everything together

http://ooznest.co.uk/image/data/products/OX/OX-Assembly-Manual.pdf

One thing that’s open ended is which electronics you use, the Nema 23
motors take around 2.8A / 3A
(you can run them with lower current you just lose out on the torque)
Also soldering avionics connectors was a bit of a pain

My thoughts were we could start out with some cheap aliexpress
DRV8825’s pololu’s / shield just to get things up and running
then move to some TMC2660’s later on which can manage 4A and have all
the fancy torque measuring features via spi
The attached is a smaller version I’ve got sitting in the loft at the
moment
I’m still trying to find the time to finish off the end stops

On Friday, May 20, 2016 at 2:14:14 PM UTC+1, Constantin Popp wrote:

not sure one where the right place is to chime into the cnc discussion

  • telegram or mailing list - but i’d thought i’d offer my 2 cents here. i
    hope this is ok.

i’d recommend going for something slightly smaller than going for
absolute maximum’s. i don’t see a point of a cnc if it’s not accurate
enough to be asked to do jobs. if the ox cnc people recommend against using
the maximum dimensions due to keeping the backslash in check then we should
follow that advice.

also, it may be worth looking at something which comes will all the
stuff we need to make the cnc with minimal effort. since there are already
so many tasks to be done with the hackspace putting another complicated job
onto the list will make it less likely to get finished. i’m not sure if the
x-carve from inventables or the Shapeoko - Carbide 3D or the ox cnc are
easier to build. no idea.

i could assist in the assembly of a simple to use kit. but for more
than that i’m afraid i may not be of much help.

bests,
const

On 20 May 2016 at 10:17, ‘garlicbread (Richard)’ via Hackspace Manchester hac...@googlegroups.com wrote:

On Friday, May 20, 2016 at 7:15:10 AM UTC+1, Skippy McGaw wrote:

On 20 May 2016, at 02:56, ‘garlicbread (Richard)’ via Hackspace Manchester hac...@googlegroups.com wrote:

Hi,
I’ve been adding some stuff to a github repo with different ideas etc

There is a github repo for a discussion? perhaps for storing
settings and etc but not a great location for talking about things.

Its more a set of examples / list of parts / notes that I pulled
together when building my own one at home
Any discussion i agree is best kept to the mailing lists etc
I was originally asked by Chris for a hypothetical example but I’m
fully open to different ideas / models / everything etc

I’ll post the link once I’ve finished adding in some more bits in

(different options for stepper drivers / electronics etc)

  • I like the idea of being able to add different types of heads
    and adapt later on, such as drag knifes / 5 or 6 axis with a lathe chuck /
    3d print head / uv exposure head for pcbs / edm etc, the vslot on the z
    axis should make this easier.

The product Tas linked to has the provision for fitting with
different heads

Yeah I just meant if we decided to go for something else like an
x-carve or a shapeoko for example, they don’t seem to have slots for the
heads

5/6 axis etc can be fitted to the little CNC machine we already

acquired from MadLAB (WSFG printed on the side)

UV exposure head???

The guys over at this site http://www.diyouware.com/ managed to
figure out how to get a PHR-803T blu-ray pickup working
the idea is you put some UV sensitive board underneath then "print"
the pcb tracks with the head
although they’re design seems to move the board around instead of the
head to avoid vibration issues

Also it would not work well as a 3D printer as the build area would

be massively hard to temperature control.

I agree, also you wouldn’t get much on the Z Height without replacing
the extrusion on the Z Axis
(but that shouldn’t stop us from trying :slight_smile: )

  • For the software personally I think chillipepr might be the best
    way to go to start (http://chilipeppr.com/grbl) with a cheap
    controller board, although this means the firmware would probably need to
    be grbl / tinyg / tinyg2 which in turn affects which board we use

I would like to hear Ian and Toms feedback on this as they are
building one for LAMM so will have hands on experience

  • Turning 3d models into g-code involves CAM software, (like a
    slicer for a 3d printer) usually cam software has a thing called a
    pre-processor to output for different boards / firmwares, so that’s worth
    taking into consideration (e.g. hsmworks, asprire, jscut for cam)

again LAMM peeps

  • Personally I think an ideal setup would be a beaglebone green
    with an rpi3 / touch screen using machinekit. since it has lots of fancy
    realtime stuff / motion control such as using the PRU’s of the beaglebone.
    (but I haven’t looked into setting that up yet)

Once Funded and Built, in the medium term would it be worth getting
some experience on the WSFG CNC?

That’s one option
I’ve managed to get an old emf badge from Bob that’s got the same IC
as an arduino due on it
I’m hoping I can combine it with the existing polulu drivers from the
proxon mill and a custom breakout board to make the proxon use chillipepr /
tinyg2. I think I’ve got the tinyg2 side figured out for that one and just
need to get around to making the break out board

  • For the mechanical parts on average it takes about 2 days for
    one person to put together an Ox kit

  • One idea is that we put resin or epoxy into the extrusion to
    make it more rigid

Would this not risk permanent deformation? as plastics tend not to
return once relaxed?

In the cnc forums there’s been a few different discussions of
different mixtures of materials
although from the looks of it some of it is more for damping
vibration than adding strength
I don’t have a link to hand, but if you google cnc expoxy granite for
example

Another link is

http://openbuilds.org/builds/the-bull-dog-a-rovercnc-ox-based-1500mm-x-1500mm-cnc-tutorial-build.2815/
This one is probably more expensive since it’s C-Beam, and needs
more wheels, also I don’t think it’s in kit form like the ox
There’s quite a lot of other custom builds on that site

The other most popular ones I’ve seen are the shapeoko or the
x-carve. But they seem less hackable, and I think it might be expensive to
get them shipped from the US unless there is a UK distributor somewhere

On Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 10:35:39 PM UTC+1, tas kay wrote:

Hi all,

There’s been a lot of discussion recently, in both our physical and

digital spaces about getting a CNC router for the space. It’s no
secret
that Bob and I for example have been lusting after one for a while.

Ideally we’d like to find something affordable that can easily take
a
whole sheet of ply.

Richard has suggested this router
http://ooznest.co.uk/OX-CNC-Machine/OX-CNC-Mechanical-Kit which
can,
with a bit of tweaking, go up to 1500mm x 1500mm. This would cost
in the
region of £1000 to buy, plus time etc to put together (I’ve not
done any
detailed costings because right now this is just the germ of an
idea).

The others that I’ve been looking at are considerably smaller (big
enough for my purposes but perhaps not for those of other members),
so
I’m not going to bother linking them right now.

If anyone has any other / better / different suggestions we’d be
glad to
hear and consider them so that we can pick the most suitable bit of
kit
for the space prior to running a pledge drive for it.

Best,

Tamarisk


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Thank you Simon :slight_smile: is there any documentation online for the router so that we can get a few of us up to speed on how to use it?

tamarisk

p: 07949 151 100
e: tamarisk@tamarisk.it
t: @notquitehere> On 27 May 2016, at 12:49, Simon Southey-Davis simon@southeydavis.info wrote:

Hi Bob,

No problem with that at all. I have a small range of 3mm bits for the rotary tool - end mill, ball nose, v-bit - which I think can be used with an ER-11 collet?

I’m planning to be at the space some time this weekend to help out with the HtS work so should be able to bring the Shapeoko with me. It may as well live at the space and be useful rather than sit on my table as an expensive paperweight!

-Simon

On 23 May 2016 at 14:57, Bob Clough bob@clough.me wrote:
Personally, I think it might be better short-term to take Simon up on his offer of a loan of his shapeoko2:

In the short term, I have a stock Shapeoko 2 that I’d be happy to loan to the space if anyone’s interested. It’s a toy compared to the likes of a ShopBot - doesn’t even have a proper spindle yet, still has the supplied KO rotary tool - but should at least be usable. Let me know if interested.

This would allow us to sort out things like the toolchain and care and maintenance of a CNC in the space (which is something we’ve never quite gotten off the ground with the existing PCB milling machines) - And once people are familiar with using them, at that point we can price out different options and figure out funding sources for BIG CNC machines.

I have a spare 300W ER11 spindle in the space (because reasons) that we could (reversibly) transplant onto it if Simon is OK with that - I’m sure we could CNC up a mounting bracket for it :slight_smile:

-Bob

On 22 May 2016 at 22:13, ‘garlicbread (Richard)’ via Hackspace Manchester hacman@googlegroups.com wrote:
Just to follow
I tried to look into what problems there might be with going max size 1.5m x 1.5m

First I found these threads
http://www.openbuilds.com/threads/stop-x-axis-flex-on-the-ox.6859/#post-35760
http://www.openbuilds.com/threads/beavers-ox-1500.4408/
Basically there are 2 60x20 extrusions that go across for the X Axis (left to right) with a 3rd bar further back
One of the problems is when the spindle is dead center, you end up with a torsion effect where the spin of the spindle causes a twist when the X axis is very long.
one fix is to try and glue or bolt these two extrusions together
one of the above threads suggests 8mm bolts with about 150mm spacing

Next I asked ooznest if they had any experience with very large machines, they’re response was:

We put that warning up, because one customer did have an issue with accurate re-positioning of the tool head. However we have sold many of that size since then without any issues.
If you are planning to do mainly wood work with the machine, then that size shouldn’t cause any issues.
Bolting or glue the rails together would help a lot. Another mod you can do is by doubling the belts, if you look up OX Double belt mod, it will explain what i mean better.

after a bit of searching I found this for the double belt mod
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXjLuLqFb-U

On Friday, May 20, 2016 at 10:45:13 PM UTC+1, Constantin Popp wrote:
Wow, that looks amazing.

On 20 May 2016 16:30, “‘garlicbread (Richard)’ via Hackspace Manchester” hac...@googlegroups.com wrote:
Hi Constantin

I can’t comment on the other devices, but I’d say mechanically the ox is one of the easiest kits I’ve put together
everything is pre-cut and pre-tapped and labeled and boxed (Greg would be proud)
I think the only problem I came up against was a single nackered T-nut (you get a bag of spares)
It took just a couple of days to screw and bolt everything together

http://ooznest.co.uk/image/data/products/OX/OX-Assembly-Manual.pdf

One thing that’s open ended is which electronics you use, the Nema 23 motors take around 2.8A / 3A
(you can run them with lower current you just lose out on the torque)
Also soldering avionics connectors was a bit of a pain

My thoughts were we could start out with some cheap aliexpress DRV8825’s pololu’s / shield just to get things up and running
then move to some TMC2660’s later on which can manage 4A and have all the fancy torque measuring features via spi
The attached is a smaller version I’ve got sitting in the loft at the moment
I’m still trying to find the time to finish off the end stops

On Friday, May 20, 2016 at 2:14:14 PM UTC+1, Constantin Popp wrote:
not sure one where the right place is to chime into the cnc discussion - telegram or mailing list - but i’d thought i’d offer my 2 cents here. i hope this is ok.

i’d recommend going for something slightly smaller than going for absolute maximum’s. i don’t see a point of a cnc if it’s not accurate enough to be asked to do jobs. if the ox cnc people recommend against using the maximum dimensions due to keeping the backslash in check then we should follow that advice.

also, it may be worth looking at something which comes will all the stuff we need to make the cnc with minimal effort. since there are already so many tasks to be done with the hackspace putting another complicated job onto the list will make it less likely to get finished. i’m not sure if the x-carve from inventables or the Shapeoko - Carbide 3D or the ox cnc are easier to build. no idea.

i could assist in the assembly of a simple to use kit. but for more than that i’m afraid i may not be of much help.

bests,
const

On 20 May 2016 at 10:17, ‘garlicbread (Richard)’ via Hackspace Manchester hac...@googlegroups.com wrote:

On Friday, May 20, 2016 at 7:15:10 AM UTC+1, Skippy McGaw wrote:

On 20 May 2016, at 02:56, ‘garlicbread (Richard)’ via Hackspace Manchester hac...@googlegroups.com wrote:

Hi,
I’ve been adding some stuff to a github repo with different ideas etc

There is a github repo for a discussion? perhaps for storing settings and etc but not a great location for talking about things.

Its more a set of examples / list of parts / notes that I pulled together when building my own one at home
Any discussion i agree is best kept to the mailing lists etc
I was originally asked by Chris for a hypothetical example but I’m fully open to different ideas / models / everything etc

I’ll post the link once I’ve finished adding in some more bits in (different options for stepper drivers / electronics etc)

  • I like the idea of being able to add different types of heads and adapt later on, such as drag knifes / 5 or 6 axis with a lathe chuck / 3d print head / uv exposure head for pcbs / edm etc, the vslot on the z axis should make this easier.

The product Tas linked to has the provision for fitting with different heads

Yeah I just meant if we decided to go for something else like an x-carve or a shapeoko for example, they don’t seem to have slots for the heads

5/6 axis etc can be fitted to the little CNC machine we already acquired from MadLAB (WSFG printed on the side)

UV exposure head???

The guys over at this site http://www.diyouware.com/ managed to figure out how to get a PHR-803T blu-ray pickup working
the idea is you put some UV sensitive board underneath then “print” the pcb tracks with the head
although they’re design seems to move the board around instead of the head to avoid vibration issues

Also it would not work well as a 3D printer as the build area would be massively hard to temperature control.

I agree, also you wouldn’t get much on the Z Height without replacing the extrusion on the Z Axis
(but that shouldn’t stop us from trying :slight_smile: )

  • For the software personally I think chillipepr might be the best way to go to start (http://chilipeppr.com/grbl) with a cheap controller board, although this means the firmware would probably need to be grbl / tinyg / tinyg2 which in turn affects which board we use

I would like to hear Ian and Toms feedback on this as they are building one for LAMM so will have hands on experience

  • Turning 3d models into g-code involves CAM software, (like a slicer for a 3d printer) usually cam software has a thing called a pre-processor to output for different boards / firmwares, so that’s worth taking into consideration (e.g. hsmworks, asprire, jscut for cam)

again LAMM peeps

  • Personally I think an ideal setup would be a beaglebone green with an rpi3 / touch screen using machinekit. since it has lots of fancy realtime stuff / motion control such as using the PRU’s of the beaglebone. (but I haven’t looked into setting that up yet)

Once Funded and Built, in the medium term would it be worth getting some experience on the WSFG CNC?

That’s one option
I’ve managed to get an old emf badge from Bob that’s got the same IC as an arduino due on it
I’m hoping I can combine it with the existing polulu drivers from the proxon mill and a custom breakout board to make the proxon use chillipepr / tinyg2. I think I’ve got the tinyg2 side figured out for that one and just need to get around to making the break out board

  • For the mechanical parts on average it takes about 2 days for one person to put together an Ox kit
  • One idea is that we put resin or epoxy into the extrusion to make it more rigid

Would this not risk permanent deformation? as plastics tend not to return once relaxed?

In the cnc forums there’s been a few different discussions of different mixtures of materials
although from the looks of it some of it is more for damping vibration than adding strength
I don’t have a link to hand, but if you google cnc expoxy granite for example

Another link is
http://openbuilds.org/builds/the-bull-dog-a-rovercnc-ox-based-1500mm-x-1500mm-cnc-tutorial-build.2815/
This one is probably more expensive since it’s C-Beam, and needs more wheels, also I don’t think it’s in kit form like the ox
There’s quite a lot of other custom builds on that site

The other most popular ones I’ve seen are the shapeoko or the x-carve. But they seem less hackable, and I think it might be expensive to get them shipped from the US unless there is a UK distributor somewhere

On Thursday, May 19, 2016 at 10:35:39 PM UTC+1, tas kay wrote:
Hi all,

There’s been a lot of discussion recently, in both our physical and
digital spaces about getting a CNC router for the space. It’s no secret
that Bob and I for example have been lusting after one for a while.

Ideally we’d like to find something affordable that can easily take a
whole sheet of ply.

Richard has suggested this router
http://ooznest.co.uk/OX-CNC-Machine/OX-CNC-Mechanical-Kit which can,
with a bit of tweaking, go up to 1500mm x 1500mm. This would cost in the
region of £1000 to buy, plus time etc to put together (I’ve not done any
detailed costings because right now this is just the germ of an idea).

The others that I’ve been looking at are considerably smaller (big
enough for my purposes but perhaps not for those of other members), so
I’m not going to bother linking them right now.

If anyone has any other / better / different suggestions we’d be glad to
hear and consider them so that we can pick the most suitable bit of kit
for the space prior to running a pledge drive for it.

Best,

Tamarisk


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There’s a wiki and docs at the parent site here:
http://www.shapeoko.com/wiki/index.php/ShapeOko_2

The machine’s assembled but almost certainly needs tuning; I never really
got beyond axis testing with Universal Gcode Sender. The original plan was
to use it for 3D carving, but I didn’t have the toolchain yet. Might be
able to run it from Fusion 360 though…

-SimonOn 27 May 2016 at 13:15, tamarisk Kay tamarisk@tamarisk.it wrote:

Thank you Simon :slight_smile: is there any documentation online for the router so
that we can get a few of us up to speed on how to use it?

tamarisk

Hi All,

The machine’s assembled but almost certainly needs tuning; I never really
got beyond axis testing with Universal Gcode Sender. The original plan was
to use it for 3D carving, but I didn’t have the toolchain yet. Might be
able to run it from Fusion 360 though…

Sorry, not contributed to the discussion because time has been crazy of
late.

We went with a GRBL board on our OxCNC along with a RasPi and the GRBL JSON
Serial Port server for Chilipeppr -
https://github.com/chilipeppr/serial-port-json-server/releases/download/v1.88/serial-port-json-server-1.88_linux_arm.tar.gz

We’ve then got that on the LAN at the hackspace which allows someone to
connect Chilipeppr with it using a laptop.

Toolchain is the thing we’re trying to figure out though ClaireJ has been
doing most of the research on that. I’ve hit the “Hardware’s all shiny and
working, bored now” point :wink:

Regards, Ian.
Ian Norton

I think Simon’s device will likely be grbl as well from looking at the
shapeoko site

For the toolchain
I’ve spotted http://jscut.org/ for open source Cam

I’ve got a copy of Aspire 8.0 we could try it out with the shapeoko 2
(mostly for 2D / Flat surfaces)
http://www.vectric.com/cool-stuff/projects.html
and solidworks / hsmworks (mostly for 3D type objects)
I think they both have grbl pre-processors for outputing g-code

I’ll try and remember to bring my calipers in on Saturday
so I can try and input the size of the machine and the shapes of the
cutting heads into the Cam softwareOn Friday, May 27, 2016 at 1:38:47 PM UTC+1, Ian Norton wrote:

Hi All,

The machine’s assembled but almost certainly needs tuning; I never really
got beyond axis testing with Universal Gcode Sender. The original plan was
to use it for 3D carving, but I didn’t have the toolchain yet. Might be
able to run it from Fusion 360 though…

Sorry, not contributed to the discussion because time has been crazy of
late.

We went with a GRBL board on our OxCNC along with a RasPi and the GRBL
JSON Serial Port server for Chilipeppr -
https://github.com/chilipeppr/serial-port-json-server/releases/download/v1.88/serial-port-json-server-1.88_linux_arm.tar.gz

We’ve then got that on the LAN at the hackspace which allows someone to
connect Chilipeppr with it using a laptop.

Toolchain is the thing we’re trying to figure out though ClaireJ has been
doing most of the research on that. I’ve hit the “Hardware’s all shiny and
working, bored now” point :wink:

Regards, Ian.

Ian Norton