Girl Geek Afternoon Tea - Ms HacMan workshop

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1

Hi HacMan,

I talked to Bob and Tom today and it looks like we’re going to do a
Girl Geek Afternoon Tea meets HacMan crossover next month! The
workshop will be at MadLab on Sunday 23rd May.

We’re considering building some robots (well, JunkBots) and need about
10 projects that people can work on (in teams of 2 or 3). It should be
fairly easy, we’ve got 2 hours, and suitable for people who don’t have
any previous experience with techy stuff. If you’re up for helping
come up with something (what to build, including where to get the
parts from etc) or volunteering on the day, contact Bob or Tom. Your
help is very much appreciated! I’m really looking forward to the
workshop, and hopefully we’ll get some girls to join HacMan as well!

Cheers

Sam

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2

If we build toothbrush-based brushbots, we could do a collaborative
artpiece at the end of the day, something like:

http://artdesignwhatever.com/ArtDesignWhatever/BrushBots.html

But on an A2 piece of paper, would look awesome framed on the madlab wall!

-BobOn 28 April 2010 23:53, Sam samantha.patricia.bail@googlemail.com wrote:

Hi HacMan,

I talked to Bob and Tom today and it looks like we’re going to do a
Girl Geek Afternoon Tea meets HacMan crossover next month! The
workshop will be at MadLab on Sunday 23rd May.

We’re considering building some robots (well, JunkBots) and need about
10 projects that people can work on (in teams of 2 or 3). It should be
fairly easy, we’ve got 2 hours, and suitable for people who don’t have
any previous experience with techy stuff. If you’re up for helping
come up with something (what to build, including where to get the
parts from etc) or volunteering on the day, contact Bob or Tom. Your
help is very much appreciated! I’m really looking forward to the
workshop, and hopefully we’ll get some girls to join HacMan as well!

Cheers

Sam

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3

Ooooooh AWESOME.

Sold :slight_smile:

We can get different sized brushes I suppose to mix it up a bit… and
need to get frames and paint donated from somewhere. But yeah, that’s
brilliant!

Would you mind organising the parts we need, let me know how much it
would cost…

This is exciting!On Apr 29, 9:15 am, Bob Clough para...@ivixor.net wrote:

If we build toothbrush-based brushbots, we could do a collaborative
artpiece at the end of the day, something like:

http://artdesignwhatever.com/ArtDesignWhatever/BrushBots.html

But on an A2 piece of paper, would look awesome framed on the madlab wall!

-Bob

On 28 April 2010 23:53, Sam samantha.patricia.b...@googlemail.com wrote:

Hi HacMan,

I talked to Bob and Tom today and it looks like we’re going to do a
Girl Geek Afternoon Tea meets HacMan crossover next month! The
workshop will be at MadLab on Sunday 23rd May.

We’re considering building some robots (well, JunkBots) and need about
10 projects that people can work on (in teams of 2 or 3). It should be
fairly easy, we’ve got 2 hours, and suitable for people who don’t have
any previous experience with techy stuff. If you’re up for helping
come up with something (what to build, including where to get the
parts from etc) or volunteering on the day, contact Bob or Tom. Your
help is very much appreciated! I’m really looking forward to the
workshop, and hopefully we’ll get some girls to join HacMan as well!

Cheers

Sam

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4

Pricing it up, we can probably make the bots for around £2 each, then
we’d need to get hold of ink and paper. For now, I’ll buy the parts
to build 10 bots (10 motors, 10 batteries, 20 toothbrushes).

As for the frame, if we know the paper size and the bot size i can put
a couple together.

The next problem will be tools. Bristlebots are usually put together
using hotglue, but we only have a couple of glueguns. We can either
put the call out to try and borrow them off people, get people sharing
tools, or try using something like bluetac.

Anyone fancy whipping together a ‘Ms HACMan’ logo :stuck_out_tongue:

-BobOn 29 April 2010 16:34, Sam samantha.patricia.bail@googlemail.com wrote:

Ooooooh AWESOME.

Sold :slight_smile:

We can get different sized brushes I suppose to mix it up a bit… and
need to get frames and paint donated from somewhere. But yeah, that’s
brilliant!

Would you mind organising the parts we need, let me know how much it
would cost…

This is exciting!

On Apr 29, 9:15 am, Bob Clough para...@ivixor.net wrote:

If we build toothbrush-based brushbots, we could do a collaborative
artpiece at the end of the day, something like:

http://artdesignwhatever.com/ArtDesignWhatever/BrushBots.html

But on an A2 piece of paper, would look awesome framed on the madlab wall!

-Bob

On 28 April 2010 23:53, Sam samantha.patricia.b...@googlemail.com wrote:

Hi HacMan,

I talked to Bob and Tom today and it looks like we’re going to do a
Girl Geek Afternoon Tea meets HacMan crossover next month! The
workshop will be at MadLab on Sunday 23rd May.

We’re considering building some robots (well, JunkBots) and need about
10 projects that people can work on (in teams of 2 or 3). It should be
fairly easy, we’ve got 2 hours, and suitable for people who don’t have
any previous experience with techy stuff. If you’re up for helping
come up with something (what to build, including where to get the
parts from etc) or volunteering on the day, contact Bob or Tom. Your
help is very much appreciated! I’m really looking forward to the
workshop, and hopefully we’ll get some girls to join HacMan as well!

Cheers

Sam

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5

I don’t get the obsession with hot-glue! What’s wrong with normal glue from a tube?

Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 17:20:05 +0100
Subject: Re: [HACMan] Re: Girl Geek Afternoon Tea - Ms HacMan workshop
From: parag0n@ivixor.net
To: hacman@googlegroups.com

Pricing it up, we can probably make the bots for around £2 each, then
we’d need to get hold of ink and paper. For now, I’ll buy the parts
to build 10 bots (10 motors, 10 batteries, 20 toothbrushes).

As for the frame, if we know the paper size and the bot size i can put
a couple together.

The next problem will be tools. Bristlebots are usually put together
using hotglue, but we only have a couple of glueguns. We can either
put the call out to try and borrow them off people, get people sharing
tools, or try using something like bluetac.

Anyone fancy whipping together a ‘Ms HACMan’ logo :stuck_out_tongue:

-Bob

Ooooooh AWESOME.

Sold :slight_smile:

We can get different sized brushes I suppose to mix it up a bit… and
need to get frames and paint donated from somewhere. But yeah, that’s
brilliant!

Would you mind organising the parts we need, let me know how much it
would cost…

This is exciting!

If we build toothbrush-based brushbots, we could do a collaborative
artpiece at the end of the day, something like:

http://artdesignwhatever.com/ArtDesignWhatever/BrushBots.html

But on an A2 piece of paper, would look awesome framed on the madlab wall!

-Bob

Hi HacMan,

I talked to Bob and Tom today and it looks like we’re going to do a
Girl Geek Afternoon Tea meets HacMan crossover next month! The
workshop will be at MadLab on Sunday 23rd May.

We’re considering building some robots (well, JunkBots) and need about
10 projects that people can work on (in teams of 2 or 3). It should be
fairly easy, we’ve got 2 hours, and suitable for people who don’t have
any previous experience with techy stuff. If you’re up for helping
come up with something (what to build, including where to get the
parts from etc) or volunteering on the day, contact Bob or Tom. Your
help is very much appreciated! I’m really looking forward to the
workshop, and hopefully we’ll get some girls to join HacMan as well!

Cheers

Sam

–
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6

Hotglue dries in about 30 seconds?On 29 April 2010 18:17, Paul Plowman madstunts@hotmail.com wrote:

I don’t get the obsession with hot-glue! What’s wrong with normal glue from
a tube?

Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 17:20:05 +0100
Subject: Re: [HACMan] Re: Girl Geek Afternoon Tea - Ms HacMan workshop
From: parag0n@ivixor.net
To: hacman@googlegroups.com

Pricing it up, we can probably make the bots for around £2 each, then
we’d need to get hold of ink and paper. For now, I’ll buy the parts
to build 10 bots (10 motors, 10 batteries, 20 toothbrushes).

As for the frame, if we know the paper size and the bot size i can put
a couple together.

The next problem will be tools. Bristlebots are usually put together
using hotglue, but we only have a couple of glueguns. We can either
put the call out to try and borrow them off people, get people sharing
tools, or try using something like bluetac.

Anyone fancy whipping together a ‘Ms HACMan’ logo :stuck_out_tongue:

-Bob

On 29 April 2010 16:34, Sam samantha.patricia.bail@googlemail.com wrote:

Ooooooh AWESOME.

Sold :slight_smile:

We can get different sized brushes I suppose to mix it up a bit… and
need to get frames and paint donated from somewhere. But yeah, that’s
brilliant!

Would you mind organising the parts we need, let me know how much it
would cost…

This is exciting!

On Apr 29, 9:15 am, Bob Clough para...@ivixor.net wrote:

If we build toothbrush-based brushbots, we could do a collaborative
artpiece at the end of the day, something like:

http://artdesignwhatever.com/ArtDesignWhatever/BrushBots.html

But on an A2 piece of paper, would look awesome framed on the madlab
wall!

-Bob

On 28 April 2010 23:53, Sam samantha.patricia.b...@googlemail.com wrote:

Hi HacMan,

I talked to Bob and Tom today and it looks like we’re going to do a
Girl Geek Afternoon Tea meets HacMan crossover next month! The
workshop will be at MadLab on Sunday 23rd May.

We’re considering building some robots (well, JunkBots) and need
about
10 projects that people can work on (in teams of 2 or 3). It should
be
fairly easy, we’ve got 2 hours, and suitable for people who don’t
have
any previous experience with techy stuff. If you’re up for helping
come up with something (what to build, including where to get the
parts from etc) or volunteering on the day, contact Bob or Tom. Your
help is very much appreciated! I’m really looking forward to the
workshop, and hopefully we’ll get some girls to join HacMan as well!

Cheers

Sam

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7

OK, bought the motors and batteries. I’ll get the toothbrushes from
poundland, because they have them at £1 for 10. I’ve found a
selection of inks on ebay, but the set is £11, it might be worth
looking round art shops?On 29 April 2010 20:50, Bob Clough parag0n@ivixor.net wrote:

Hotglue dries in about 30 seconds?

On 29 April 2010 18:17, Paul Plowman madstunts@hotmail.com wrote:

I don’t get the obsession with hot-glue! What’s wrong with normal glue from
a tube?

Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 17:20:05 +0100
Subject: Re: [HACMan] Re: Girl Geek Afternoon Tea - Ms HacMan workshop
From: parag0n@ivixor.net
To: hacman@googlegroups.com

Pricing it up, we can probably make the bots for around £2 each, then
we’d need to get hold of ink and paper. For now, I’ll buy the parts
to build 10 bots (10 motors, 10 batteries, 20 toothbrushes).

As for the frame, if we know the paper size and the bot size i can put
a couple together.

The next problem will be tools. Bristlebots are usually put together
using hotglue, but we only have a couple of glueguns. We can either
put the call out to try and borrow them off people, get people sharing
tools, or try using something like bluetac.

Anyone fancy whipping together a ‘Ms HACMan’ logo :stuck_out_tongue:

-Bob

On 29 April 2010 16:34, Sam samantha.patricia.bail@googlemail.com wrote:

Ooooooh AWESOME.

Sold :slight_smile:

We can get different sized brushes I suppose to mix it up a bit… and
need to get frames and paint donated from somewhere. But yeah, that’s
brilliant!

Would you mind organising the parts we need, let me know how much it
would cost…

This is exciting!

On Apr 29, 9:15 am, Bob Clough para...@ivixor.net wrote:

If we build toothbrush-based brushbots, we could do a collaborative
artpiece at the end of the day, something like:

http://artdesignwhatever.com/ArtDesignWhatever/BrushBots.html

But on an A2 piece of paper, would look awesome framed on the madlab
wall!

-Bob

On 28 April 2010 23:53, Sam samantha.patricia.b...@googlemail.com wrote:

Hi HacMan,

I talked to Bob and Tom today and it looks like we’re going to do a
Girl Geek Afternoon Tea meets HacMan crossover next month! The
workshop will be at MadLab on Sunday 23rd May.

We’re considering building some robots (well, JunkBots) and need
about
10 projects that people can work on (in teams of 2 or 3). It should
be
fairly easy, we’ve got 2 hours, and suitable for people who don’t
have
any previous experience with techy stuff. If you’re up for helping
come up with something (what to build, including where to get the
parts from etc) or volunteering on the day, contact Bob or Tom. Your
help is very much appreciated! I’m really looking forward to the
workshop, and hopefully we’ll get some girls to join HacMan as well!

Cheers

Sam

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8

Check the pound shop for acrylic or water based paint - am sure they’l
have some cheap sets :POn 30 April 2010 09:38, Bob Clough parag0n@ivixor.net wrote:

OK, bought the motors and batteries. I’ll get the toothbrushes from
poundland, because they have them at £1 for 10. I’ve found a
selection of inks on ebay, but the set is £11, it might be worth
looking round art shops?

On 29 April 2010 20:50, Bob Clough parag0n@ivixor.net wrote:

Hotglue dries in about 30 seconds?

On 29 April 2010 18:17, Paul Plowman madstunts@hotmail.com wrote:

I don’t get the obsession with hot-glue! What’s wrong with normal glue from
a tube?

Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 17:20:05 +0100
Subject: Re: [HACMan] Re: Girl Geek Afternoon Tea - Ms HacMan workshop
From: parag0n@ivixor.net
To: hacman@googlegroups.com

Pricing it up, we can probably make the bots for around £2 each, then
we’d need to get hold of ink and paper. For now, I’ll buy the parts
to build 10 bots (10 motors, 10 batteries, 20 toothbrushes).

As for the frame, if we know the paper size and the bot size i can put
a couple together.

The next problem will be tools. Bristlebots are usually put together
using hotglue, but we only have a couple of glueguns. We can either
put the call out to try and borrow them off people, get people sharing
tools, or try using something like bluetac.

Anyone fancy whipping together a ‘Ms HACMan’ logo :stuck_out_tongue:

-Bob

On 29 April 2010 16:34, Sam samantha.patricia.bail@googlemail.com wrote:

Ooooooh AWESOME.

Sold :slight_smile:

We can get different sized brushes I suppose to mix it up a bit… and
need to get frames and paint donated from somewhere. But yeah, that’s
brilliant!

Would you mind organising the parts we need, let me know how much it
would cost…

This is exciting!

On Apr 29, 9:15 am, Bob Clough para...@ivixor.net wrote:

If we build toothbrush-based brushbots, we could do a collaborative
artpiece at the end of the day, something like:

http://artdesignwhatever.com/ArtDesignWhatever/BrushBots.html

But on an A2 piece of paper, would look awesome framed on the madlab
wall!

-Bob

On 28 April 2010 23:53, Sam samantha.patricia.b...@googlemail.com wrote:

Hi HacMan,

I talked to Bob and Tom today and it looks like we’re going to do a
Girl Geek Afternoon Tea meets HacMan crossover next month! The
workshop will be at MadLab on Sunday 23rd May.

We’re considering building some robots (well, JunkBots) and need
about
10 projects that people can work on (in teams of 2 or 3). It should
be
fairly easy, we’ve got 2 hours, and suitable for people who don’t
have
any previous experience with techy stuff. If you’re up for helping
come up with something (what to build, including where to get the
parts from etc) or volunteering on the day, contact Bob or Tom. Your
help is very much appreciated! I’m really looking forward to the
workshop, and hopefully we’ll get some girls to join HacMan as well!

Cheers

Sam

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Thomas C. Bloor Mob: (+44) 07905646892
tom.bloor@googlemail.com or tom@bloorfamily.net
Homepage: http://tom.bloorfamily.net

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9

I think paint might be too thick, the bots are powered by very fast
very fine movements?

I’ll grab some to test.On 30 April 2010 15:30, Thomas Bloor tom.bloor@googlemail.com wrote:

Check the pound shop for acrylic or water based paint - am sure they’l
have some cheap sets :stuck_out_tongue:

On 30 April 2010 09:38, Bob Clough parag0n@ivixor.net wrote:

OK, bought the motors and batteries. I’ll get the toothbrushes from
poundland, because they have them at £1 for 10. I’ve found a
selection of inks on ebay, but the set is £11, it might be worth
looking round art shops?

On 29 April 2010 20:50, Bob Clough parag0n@ivixor.net wrote:

Hotglue dries in about 30 seconds?

On 29 April 2010 18:17, Paul Plowman madstunts@hotmail.com wrote:

I don’t get the obsession with hot-glue! What’s wrong with normal glue from
a tube?

Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 17:20:05 +0100
Subject: Re: [HACMan] Re: Girl Geek Afternoon Tea - Ms HacMan workshop
From: parag0n@ivixor.net
To: hacman@googlegroups.com

Pricing it up, we can probably make the bots for around £2 each, then
we’d need to get hold of ink and paper. For now, I’ll buy the parts
to build 10 bots (10 motors, 10 batteries, 20 toothbrushes).

As for the frame, if we know the paper size and the bot size i can put
a couple together.

The next problem will be tools. Bristlebots are usually put together
using hotglue, but we only have a couple of glueguns. We can either
put the call out to try and borrow them off people, get people sharing
tools, or try using something like bluetac.

Anyone fancy whipping together a ‘Ms HACMan’ logo :stuck_out_tongue:

-Bob

On 29 April 2010 16:34, Sam samantha.patricia.bail@googlemail.com wrote:

Ooooooh AWESOME.

Sold :slight_smile:

We can get different sized brushes I suppose to mix it up a bit… and
need to get frames and paint donated from somewhere. But yeah, that’s
brilliant!

Would you mind organising the parts we need, let me know how much it
would cost…

This is exciting!

On Apr 29, 9:15 am, Bob Clough para...@ivixor.net wrote:

If we build toothbrush-based brushbots, we could do a collaborative
artpiece at the end of the day, something like:

http://artdesignwhatever.com/ArtDesignWhatever/BrushBots.html

But on an A2 piece of paper, would look awesome framed on the madlab
wall!

-Bob

On 28 April 2010 23:53, Sam samantha.patricia.b...@googlemail.com wrote:

Hi HacMan,

I talked to Bob and Tom today and it looks like we’re going to do a
Girl Geek Afternoon Tea meets HacMan crossover next month! The
workshop will be at MadLab on Sunday 23rd May.

We’re considering building some robots (well, JunkBots) and need
about
10 projects that people can work on (in teams of 2 or 3). It should
be
fairly easy, we’ve got 2 hours, and suitable for people who don’t
have
any previous experience with techy stuff. If you’re up for helping
come up with something (what to build, including where to get the
parts from etc) or volunteering on the day, contact Bob or Tom. Your
help is very much appreciated! I’m really looking forward to the
workshop, and hopefully we’ll get some girls to join HacMan as well!

Cheers

Sam

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Homepage: http://tom.bloorfamily.net

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10

well if you get water based paint, you can always water it down
slightly? same with acrylic i think hahaOn 30 April 2010 15:35, Bob Clough parag0n@ivixor.net wrote:

I think paint might be too thick, the bots are powered by very fast
very fine movements?

I’ll grab some to test.

On 30 April 2010 15:30, Thomas Bloor tom.bloor@googlemail.com wrote:

Check the pound shop for acrylic or water based paint - am sure they’l
have some cheap sets :stuck_out_tongue:

On 30 April 2010 09:38, Bob Clough parag0n@ivixor.net wrote:

OK, bought the motors and batteries. I’ll get the toothbrushes from
poundland, because they have them at £1 for 10. I’ve found a
selection of inks on ebay, but the set is £11, it might be worth
looking round art shops?

On 29 April 2010 20:50, Bob Clough parag0n@ivixor.net wrote:

Hotglue dries in about 30 seconds?

On 29 April 2010 18:17, Paul Plowman madstunts@hotmail.com wrote:

I don’t get the obsession with hot-glue! What’s wrong with normal glue from
a tube?

Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 17:20:05 +0100
Subject: Re: [HACMan] Re: Girl Geek Afternoon Tea - Ms HacMan workshop
From: parag0n@ivixor.net
To: hacman@googlegroups.com

Pricing it up, we can probably make the bots for around £2 each, then
we’d need to get hold of ink and paper. For now, I’ll buy the parts
to build 10 bots (10 motors, 10 batteries, 20 toothbrushes).

As for the frame, if we know the paper size and the bot size i can put
a couple together.

The next problem will be tools. Bristlebots are usually put together
using hotglue, but we only have a couple of glueguns. We can either
put the call out to try and borrow them off people, get people sharing
tools, or try using something like bluetac.

Anyone fancy whipping together a ‘Ms HACMan’ logo :stuck_out_tongue:

-Bob

On 29 April 2010 16:34, Sam samantha.patricia.bail@googlemail.com wrote:

Ooooooh AWESOME.

Sold :slight_smile:

We can get different sized brushes I suppose to mix it up a bit… and
need to get frames and paint donated from somewhere. But yeah, that’s
brilliant!

Would you mind organising the parts we need, let me know how much it
would cost…

This is exciting!

On Apr 29, 9:15 am, Bob Clough para...@ivixor.net wrote:

If we build toothbrush-based brushbots, we could do a collaborative
artpiece at the end of the day, something like:

http://artdesignwhatever.com/ArtDesignWhatever/BrushBots.html

But on an A2 piece of paper, would look awesome framed on the madlab
wall!

-Bob

On 28 April 2010 23:53, Sam samantha.patricia.b...@googlemail.com wrote:

Hi HacMan,

I talked to Bob and Tom today and it looks like we’re going to do a
Girl Geek Afternoon Tea meets HacMan crossover next month! The
workshop will be at MadLab on Sunday 23rd May.

We’re considering building some robots (well, JunkBots) and need
about
10 projects that people can work on (in teams of 2 or 3). It should
be
fairly easy, we’ve got 2 hours, and suitable for people who don’t
have
any previous experience with techy stuff. If you’re up for helping
come up with something (what to build, including where to get the
parts from etc) or volunteering on the day, contact Bob or Tom. Your
help is very much appreciated! I’m really looking forward to the
workshop, and hopefully we’ll get some girls to join HacMan as well!

Cheers

Sam

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Homepage: http://tom.bloorfamily.net

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tom.bloor@googlemail.com or tom@bloorfamily.net
Homepage: http://tom.bloorfamily.net

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11

Something suggested at geekup in alsager, use ink instead of paint for
the bristle bots. Also, cups with the motor and pens stuck to the side
for spyrograph style art?

Tom

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12

Tom Bloor wrote:

Something suggested at geekup in alsager, use ink instead of paint for
the bristle bots. Also, cups with the motor and pens stuck to the side
for spyrograph style art?

Tom

Evening Tom,

Good to meet you earlier. Now I’m at a computer I can find some
pictures :slight_smile:

As I said, we did bristlebots with toothbrush heads at the first
Howduino. Paint was too heavy to use, so the artists who were playing
around with them went out and bought some ink and that worked much
better. You can see some of the results at
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tartmeuk/tags/howduino/

The spirograph pen/cup bots are better known as Drawbots - see
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/433705/drawbots_simple_drawing_robots/
for details. They went down well with the kids at The Public in
Wolverhampton when we ran a hackday there in December. Make sure you’ve
got plenty of paper down on the floor, or that you don’t mind drawing
all over the floor :slight_smile:

Cheers,

Adrian.

http://www.mcqn.net/mcfilter/
http://twitter.com/amcewen

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13

Hey,

We suspected the paint might be too heavy. If we cant find ink, the
plan is to use watercolours, which should be light enough, though i’d
prefer ink personally!

I just hope the bits arrive on time, bought 20 pager motors and 20
2032 coin cells from ebay.

We had thought of the cupbots too (great minds think alike!) and were
planning on making them so a brushbot can be dropped into them to
provide the motor / battery / mount.

-BobOn 5 May 2010 22:52, Adrian McEwen adrian@mcqn.net wrote:

Tom Bloor wrote:

Something suggested at geekup in alsager, use ink instead of paint for
the bristle bots. Also, cups with the motor and pens stuck to the side
for spyrograph style art?

Tom

Evening Tom,

Good to meet you earlier. Now I’m at a computer I can find some pictures
:slight_smile:

As I said, we did bristlebots with toothbrush heads at the first Howduino.
Paint was too heavy to use, so the artists who were playing around with
them went out and bought some ink and that worked much better. You can see
some of the results at
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tartmeuk/tags/howduino/

The spirograph pen/cup bots are better known as Drawbots - see
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/433705/drawbots_simple_drawing_robots/ for
details. They went down well with the kids at The Public in Wolverhampton
when we ran a hackday there in December. Make sure you’ve got plenty of
paper down on the floor, or that you don’t mind drawing all over the floor
:slight_smile:

Cheers,

Adrian.

–
http://www.mcqn.net/mcfilter/
http://twitter.com/amcewen

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