Walls Stage 2


#1

Overview

After speaking with a few folks I’ve put together a latest proposal for Stage 2 of the walls.
The plan is to add in two additional walls in the corner where the wall wood is currently stored
This will section of an area for the Welding / Grinding.

This is a continuation of this thread - http://list.hacman.org.uk/t/next-wall-area-maybe/2158/4

  • Instead of doors, we’ll have large openings on both walls.

  • The openings will be 8ft high and as wide as possible.

  • The openings will also have welding curtains draped down which can be retracted upwards using one form or another.
    This should allow us to wheel things in and out of that area easily

  • Allow us to shield anyone from arceye if welding is going on

  • Allow us to shield the surrounding area from flying sparks

  • Above 8ft we can have ether plasterboard or osb, this means we can ventilate the area without making the rest of the space cold.

  • Lathe will be inside the welding area / covered when not in use to protect it

  • We can also use this area for isolating fumes for drying paint, although we’ll have to avoid storing paint in that area with sparks around.

  • On the walls with the windows, the frame will extend out a bit (about 2ft or so) so that we can have a table against this part

Dimensions

For the dimentions so far I’ve measured

  • From the wall with the windows on (right to left) - 3.8m across to where the arch ends / flat bit / members storage starts
  • From the wall with the emergency door on (back to front) - 3.8m up to where the square light that isn’t used is handing / past the window edge.

Cost

  • The existing wood in the corner should cover the frame.

I’m not sure how many curtains we need but they come in 6ft x 8ft sizes £27 each
http://www.thesafetysupplycompany.co.uk/p/8931330/green-canvas-welding-curtain-with-eyelets---size-8-x-6-foot---conforms-to-bs5867-22008-type-b---mh-1085lge.html

I’ve scored some plasterboard that was being thrown out, one idea is to place a couple of layers of this at the bottom for heat insulation. I’m not sure how much more osb / plasterboard we need since we still have some spare from the last walls.

Please let me know of any comments

Many Thanks
Richard


#2

Just to follow for Chris
The height of the opening will be a little less than 8ft since the curtains are 8ft high and we need to hang them on a rail

If we assume a 2inch overlap between curtains, and they’re 6ft across
6ft = 72 inches
72 inches - 2 inches = 70 inches
70 inches = 1.778m

so each curtain is 1.778m across accounting for overlap
on each wall 1.778m x 2 = 3.556m

if we make the walls are 3.8m long we can make up for the shortfall of about 0.244m / 0.8ft
because we need to extend / panel one of the walls (the one closest to the window) out a bit by a couple of ft anyway so that a table can go up against it, so at the most we should need 4 curtains
we can ether fit one of the curtains around the corner, or just cut it into a couple of pieces to split it up


#3

I like this plan - Additionally building a big heavy concrete or steel topped table right in the corner would probably be sensible, for welding on and beating the heck out of bits of metal.

would a second set of curtains for when the area is being used for spraypainting be sensible? It’d just need to be light PVC curtains or dust sheets.

-Bob


#4

I agree, we can throw up some shower curtains or somthing similar for
spraying, I might be able to acquire some fairly cheaply or free…

Awesome job garlicbread!

Thanks,
badspyro


#5

rough image my dad just drew up
the 3.5 bit is just the maximum width sized beams we have at the moment for across the opening
we can actually make it any size (longer is possible but more difficult), but the original proposal is still 3.8 in both directions for overall length
unless someone wants to change it because of the curtain widths etc


#6

I wonder if it would be a good idea to make the ceiling lower on that area
(8ft ish) and have on top of it for deep storage of space things - spare
tools, boxes for moving equipment, exhibits etc?

Obviously would need to be a bit more overbuilt if there was stuff on top
of it, current design is good though.

-Bob


#7

Would we be able to usefully fireproof such a ceiling?


#8

I’ve mentioned the lower ceiling idea to my dad and he’s thinking about it, we think there’s enough wood for that
there’s a load of cheap fibre glass sheets down at Macclesfield reclamation at about £10 for a large sheet, so that might be an idea


#9

There’s been a bit more thought and we’ve decided that the ceiling is also needed to support the frame.
I’ve attached a diagram my father has drawn out for the ceiling recently

The ceiling height will be 8 foot 6 inches high
The frame wall opening will be lower than that for the curtains etc.
Also we’ve changed the dimensions slightly for 3.8m x 3.6m because of the wood we have available and to match up with the lower point of the arch on the mill ceiling

If I can figure out where the cable trays will be going (how high up the wall) we could make a start and make allowances for that (since the cable tray stuff has stalled for a bit while we send out begging letters)

Many Thanks
Richard


#10

Just to mention the frame won’t be going all the way to the ceiling, so as long as the cable trays are above 8 foot 6 inches we should be okay


#11

Hi All,

Just to give you an update of where we’re up to with the welding area
The frame is now all done, we may add some more bits in later to add rigidity to it depending on how much more strength we get from the panels
but the next job will be paneling

We have blocks in place over the door and the window area to stop anything falling down or sparks getting up. It’s being designed so that it can support the weight of someone on top and can be used for long term storage.

I’ll be away over next week so we’ll do a bit more in a week or two hopefully.

Next bits

The next bits will be to

  • Add some plywood that Grey Matt is bringing in to the vertical walls on the outside
  • For the ceiling so far we’ve decided the best option will probably be to use 18mm OSB3, we may need around 6 sheets of it
  • Add some lighting on the inside
  • Sort out the paneling on the inside

Paneling

I’ve just discovered that “Fireline” seems to be the plasterboard with the most fire resistance
technically it’s still combustible, but is the best suited and is cheap.

there’s also something called "Supalux"
but your basically taking out a second mortgage with that stuff

Paint

We may have something like Solar Reflective Roof Paint that we originally used for the conservatory (I need to look up the make)
I’m thinking one option might be to put some on top of the Fireline plasterboard.
This might help avoid mold / moisture damage and add an extra reflective layer on top of the plasterboard

Curtains / Rails

There will also need to be some welding curtains / rails sourced at some point
That one will need to be sorted out after the paneling

Lathe

Ideally we want to replace the cover for the lathe with a welding curtain of some sort since the existing one is probably drenched in oil
As far as I know the following is on the lathe shelves

  • 2 cans of oil
  • cutting fluid

But if it’s covered up then we should be fine

Many Thanks
Richard


#12

Just to follow up on this

  1. We’re currently fastening 18mm osb to the ceiling so that its safe to walk on / storage etc. we’ve already brought in the first set of 3 osb sheets and fastened 2 of them up (the third one needs cutting down a bit on the table saw to make it fit. That cost around £50 from wickes
  2. We also need another 2 or 3 sheets to finish off the ceiling
  3. There’s now a light switch on the wall, and we’ll need to get 2 light fittings to put up, since the cover on the one on the woody dusty got smashed I’m tempted to get them without the cover / diffuser to save a bit on cash unless people want one.

For fire proofing the inside of the welding area there’s a couple of options

  1. Knauf Fire Panel
    http://www.wickes.co.uk/Knauf-Fire-Panel-Tapered-Edge-2400x1200x12-5mm/p/190539
    at 7 sheets around £61

  2. 5L tin of fireproof paint £96.90
    https://www.rawlinspaints.com/home/paints-and-coatings/fire-retardant-paints/timber-plasterboard/391-zeroflame-fire-retardant-paint.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjwq7XMBRCDARIsAKVI5QaFIMeHl0O1TE45SPNxAo8U2sJkYANNRsTiQTachmVXdILKdfOUIngaArY6EALw_wcB
    It’s likely we’d only end up using half of the tin of paint. But there are reasons we should consider this as an option.

It turns out with the plasterboard option there’s a bit of an issue with weight / fitting it to the ceiling (the frame is strong enough to hold it, but it’s hard to attach). Some online have reported having to cut it into 2ft strips because it’s quite heavy (it turns out its also pink).

  1. It’s heavy
  2. We’d likely need to get everything of there to put it up, including the lathe, this is because you can’t just hold it up with one arm
  3. There’s probably a cost of around £10 maybe more for fasteners / washers etc to attach it
  4. we might need something like scaffolding or a platform to put it up
  5. there’s more work involved / a lot more faf
  6. when bumping into plasterboard in an industrial setting it’s not very resiliant

So in short by the time we’re finished with adding fasteners, there’s only around a £20 / £30 difference between the paint and the plasterboard option. Given the amount of additional work involved, I’ll cover the £30 difference myself to save the work and massive faf involved. unless there’s some other reason to go the plasterboard route

Many Thanks
Richard


#13

Makes sense - we could also use the leftover paint, some thin OSB & hinges to make concertina-style welding shields if the curtains turn out to be mega expensive.


#14

In that case I’ll stick a DNH sticker on that 8mm OSB we have left over just in case, since we still have a full sheet of that (or at least we did have on Wednesday)


#15

As a third option, what we could do is

  1. put a couple of sheets of that plasterboard on the walls (that should be a lot easier than the ceiling)
  2. try and find a half size can of paint and paint the ceiling with it

Many Thanks
Richard


#16

Just to mention where we’re up to with this at the moment

The next stage is to identify some paint, get some paint then paint the inside of the metal area.

  1. It’s been mentioned that the stuff I’ve listed so far might not be idea for what we need so we could do with finding the ideal paint to use
  2. We could do with working out how the welding curtains / paint is going to get paid for, not sure if it’s a pledge run
  3. On a separate note maybe one for the next mmmmm, we could do with working out how stuff is to be arranged in there such as the bendy machine

For the time being until the above gets resolved, me and my father are now focusing on mounting the cable tray to the walls as the next step

Many Thanks
Richard


#17

I’ve come across this link

which goes into some of the details as to the differences between fire retardant and fire resistant paints. But I think I’ll let someone else sort this out / take the lead later on.

For now I’m just going to focus on putting up the cable trays, and possibly sealing off one side of the metal area depending on what people want door wise etc.
To seal off the metal area someone will need to detail exactly what they want plan wise in terms of a wall or door etc.

But after that I’ll just be focusing on my own projects from there on in and leaving others to take over the setup of the space infrastructure.

Many Thanks
Richard